realistic bomber speeds

[asterix]

+1 for bombers and fighters in historical events. However I am interested what the overall gain would be because the fighters could not fly at full throttle all the time, especially at lower speeds. 

[Rino]

     I'm a little confused about Sir Nuke's complaints.  He's flying RAF in the BoB scenario.  The bombers
are headed to him and he's being guided by radar operators right to them coalt or higher.  He's not
being forced to chase them down and in fact the RAF seems to exercise excellent attack discipline in
not hanging around after the initial passes. 

     

[artik]

If you want to fix something in bombers... Fix the laser bombsite - these bombsites are too accurate for the real life, especially when semi automatic calibration is enabled.

[SirNuke]

     I'm a little confused about Sir Nuke's complaints.  He's flying RAF in the BoB scenario.  The bombers
are headed to him and he's being guided by radar operators right to them coalt or higher.  He's not
being forced to chase them down and in fact the RAF seems to exercise excellent attack discipline in
not hanging around after the initial passes. 

     

my request applies to all aces high, bombers are too fast compared to their real life counterparts

[Karnak]

my request applies to all aces high, bombers are too fast compared to their real life counterparts

The problem with this is that bombers are already easy to kill while bomber sorties are a larger time commitment than a fighter sortie.  Because of this bombers are comparatively rare in the game.  In addition many new players cut their teeth on bombers.  Slowing them down would make them even easier to kill while also making the time commitment longer.  New players would have even less success and be less likely to stick around.

In the MA even the tough, heavily gunned B-17G only manages about a 0.33 to 1 kill/death rate.  The He111 was only at 0.1 to 1.  Of all bombers only the heavily perked B-29 manages anything near a 1 to 1 ratio.

[earl1937]

no, I was just observing the impossibility to recreate historical events that involve bombers. Didn't log in the MA this month.

Just a suggestion about bomber speeds! What I do to try to keep the bombers together is this: Dot speed 120 for climb out, and if you are more than 1/2 mile behind, then do dot speed 130 until you catch up, then dot speed 120. I never make over a 30 degree change in direction in order to keep the formation together, it is difficult to "wheel" a formation in here because of different skill levels of pilots.
After going level, I use manifold pressure of 35 inches as a standard, it is much easier to keep the formation together, altho, I could be wrong about this statement, "but I think the different computers in use in the game may dictate to someone to  use, say 38 inches to keep up, or 32 inches to stay in formation", not real sure about the different computer statement, but some of the old guys in here keep saying that.
The whole key to staying in formation is to use the auto-pilot function at all times except when turning and then sometimes, I call for the use of the "L" and "J" keys to make a small heading correction.
You have flown in serveral of my posted missions and you are welcome to fly with me anytime as you are a good pilot and I can count on you hitting your target! (If you are who I think your are).

[gyrene81]

my request applies to all aces high, bombers are too fast compared to their real life counterparts

  what? where did you get that information?

[muzik]

The problem with this is that bombers are already easy to kill while bomber sorties are a larger time commitment than a fighter sortie.  Because of this bombers are comparatively rare in the game.  In addition many new players cut their teeth on bombers.  Slowing them down would make them even easier to kill while also making the time commitment longer.  New players would have even less success and be less likely to stick around.

In the MA even the tough, heavily gunned B-17G only manages about a 0.33 to 1 kill/death rate.  The He111 was only at 0.1 to 1.  Of all bombers only the heavily perked B-29 manages anything near a 1 to 1 ratio.

Sounds like a good argument for AI gunners   

[asterix]

Just a suggestion about bomber speeds! What I do to try to keep the bombers together is this: Dot speed 120 for climb out, and if you are more than 1/2 mile behind, then do dot speed 130 until you catch up, then dot speed 120...

If the aim is to recreate historical events then I do not see that as a solution. I bet almost every bomber had a different takeoff, climb, cruise and formation flying power settings. If formation speeds would be reduced to historical then fighters would gain more than correct with present setup. Fighters had their own climb, cruise etc speeds also. If one would make a full throttle climb to altitude then the resource for combat would be small unless cooling the engine before. Same goes for cruise power. Complex engine management would be needed or some other speed appropriate to current fighter settings should be calculated. This other speed would be faster than historical to compensate for the current fighter performance. So I would like to know what this new formation speed should be.

[alpini13]

why not make that if you spend too long at full throttle....the engine overheats.  im not sure what happened in real life.maybe the experts can shed some light on this subject,please.

[Stellaris]

How long a plane can fly at a given power setting is governed by cooling, and it isn't just how much cooling you have, but how fast you cool (or heat) the cylinders.  Descend too fast at a low power setting and you can crack the heads.  Heat management is a big part of a pilots job, especially for this era, but simply isn't modeled here.

Nowadays a plane is rated for METO (max except takeoff power) and that's limited to a certain amount of time.  Unlike WEP, it doesn't shut off automatically.  You can keep right on exceeding it until your engine blows up.

[earl1937]

If the aim is to recreate historical events then I do not see that as a solution. I bet almost every bomber had a different takeoff, climb, cruise and formation flying power settings. If formation speeds would be reduced to historical then fighters would gain more than correct with present setup. Fighters had their own climb, cruise etc speeds also. If one would make a full throttle climb to altitude then the resource for combat would be small unless cooling the engine before. Same goes for cruise power. Complex engine management would be needed or some other speed appropriate to current fighter settings should be calculated. This other speed would be faster than historical to compensate for the current fighter performance. So I would like to know what this new formation speed should be.

Just remember, the G model B-17 was loaded to different fuel and ord requirements due to mission profile! I use the dot speed 120, because at 50% fuel and 500lbers, the best climb "rate" is 122MPH IAS, so I just round it off to 120. The engine cooling in here seems to be no problem, as I have tried different airspeed settings and it appears to make no difference. Another thing, you can't control the cowl flaps, these in the game stay open, instead of trail or 50% like the real one did. With no fuel flow controls, i.e., mixture controls, full rich is I guess what they programed into the B-17G, and with that much fuel going in the cylinders, they are not going to warm up very much anyway!

[Stellaris]

Actually, that's not quite right.  METO power is NOT time limited.  Take-off power is time limited.

[earl1937]

Actually, that's not quite right.  METO power is NOT time limited.  Take-off power is time limited.

You sir, are correct, but we are talking about aircraft engine and performance in this game, not real life. Yes, in real life, you have MP limits to watch, WEP time, if engaged to watch and a host of other things which you have to pay attention to. I think Columbo could better answer this, but the 17 and 24 both had specific power reductions at a certain airspeed and altitude. That is where a good flight engineer was worth his weight in gold, if he could take care of your life blood, "Engines"!
Or, where you referring to WEP in this game being time limited?

[guncrasher]

I'd like to think that bombers flew really slow in ww2 to save fuel.  after all they had to fly for hours on end and if they flew at max power well, they would run out of fuel 1/2 way there.

here in aces high we fly for 10 or 15 minutes so it's ridiculous to even compare our flight time to "historical" bomber flight times.  as we simulate combat, not ww2.


semp