Using tracers for aiming

[ImADot]

Sure makes films look more exciting...

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I never use tracers, why give red icon in front any idea you are there ?

Yeah that way you have a chance to escape unnoticed after you've spent all your ammo and missing. 

[The Fugitive]

I found that after the initial adjustment phase my aim got a little better (which isn't saying much) when I turned tracers off.  Occasionally I turn them back on to reset my mental sight picture but in generally I prefer to have them off. 

Besides when you miss as much as I do I don't want them to know I'm shooting at them.

LOL!!! "....miss as much as I do...."  LOL!!! righttttttt!


You one of those guys I fear giving ANY shot opportunity, Greebo, Twinboom and fester are a few others. Most guys should you have to pass in front of their guns you can add a roll or twist and it's enough to have them miss. You guys that shoot in the +10% range are the upper few percent of ALL the players according to Lusche charts.

I'd be happy to be able to maintain half of your hit percentage Souls   

[Butcher]

I never really had a problem with aiming, tracers on or off i still get 14% hit percentage if not higher. I could be gone over a year and come back and would take one day to get it back.

More I think about it with Track IR I really dont even use my gunsight that much unless I am chasing someone down thats 4-600 front of me, otherwise everything I do is snap shots and I try to get where I can take a wing off (seems to take far less damage to come off then trying to aim from the front to the back which almost never seems to down someone except spray some oil).

It probably comes down to my way of flying, in a Yak-3 for example, I never would fire unless I am closer then 200 yards, same for a Hurricane I or spitfire I.

If I am in a P47 - spray like hell, even with 267 rpg package you can still fire off a squirt and have 20 more sprays. Something like a Yak you dont get that luxury.

/what I do lose over time is ACM, and SA - i have to completely restart and relearn everything - aiming just never was a problem, its keeping my airspeed up and not falling below my rules.

[ink]

I never really had a problem with aiming, tracers on or off i still get 14% hit percentage if not higher. I could be gone over a year and come back and would take one day to get it back.

More I think about it with Track IR I really dont even use my gunsight that much unless I am chasing someone down thats 4-600 front of me, otherwise everything I do is snap shots and I try to get where I can take a wing off (seems to take far less damage to come off then trying to aim from the front to the back which almost never seems to down someone except spray some oil).

It probably comes down to my way of flying, in a Yak-3 for example, I never would fire unless I am closer then 200 yards, same for a Hurricane I or spitfire I.

If I am in a P47 - spray like hell, even with 267 rpg package you can still fire off a squirt and have 20 more sprays. Something like a Yak you dont get that luxury.

/what I do lose over time is ACM, and SA - i have to completely restart and relearn everything - aiming just never was a problem, its keeping my airspeed up and not falling below my rules.

wish I could aim

I think the highest I have seen my hit% was 9....only because I went after a few bombers that tour.

[bustr]

After all this time in the game. I wish tracers on\off was a check box in the hanger with each ride where you select fuel and load outs. The file that would hold it probably could be stored to the aircraftname.cfg file which holds your convergence info. Default, it would be "on" if the file were deleted or a new install. I suspect more players would experiment with it then. As is, the inconvenience of drilling into the clipboard options menu makes a last minute change of mind a "bite me" deal along with even remembering where it is.

As the game is presented now, the tracers are good for filling the time void while you wait for the results when you pull the trigger. Without tracers, taking a 400-600 yard shot has an empty timing point while you wait, which really becomes apparent. During that moment your only course is to keep glued to your con till feed back happens. You and he can make at least one major move during that period polluting your expected feedback to help you aim. Straffing at ground targets is another time wait until you receive the impact feedback to then make your next move decision.

Tracers off forces you to learn how to aim developing a sight picture like learning long range tactical shooting. Tracers on allows minor mistakes that can be adjusted visa redirecting the tracer stream if you have developed a basic sight picture understanding. Otherwise you need to visit a Trainer to learn how to develop the concept of a sight picture in air to air combat.

Sometimes offline shooting at drones with the LCG turned on. I've wished that it were augmented with a lead holdoff ring edge, or ring that changes diameter to give the appropriate lead edge relative to range and combined speeds in the same color green. It would use the cross as it's center pipper. This would help develop the sight picture of 5, 10, 20 and 30 degree hold off or 90 degree snapshots say to 800 yards shown in the WW2 manual "Bag the Hun". I suspect many players never deduce the relationship of the green cross to divisions of their main ring for hold off values. Having a green ring edge combined with the cross would go a long way to helping develop a sight picture. I'll bet just like the green cross shows inside of the cockpit, a lead ring would show how much to blind pull the nose.

Semp mentioned a gunsight I gave him that makes him feel like he's cheating. I tried to account for the LCG movement offline while combining the instructional devices of "Bag the Hun". Turns out if you read the tech manual for a K14 about how the gyroscopic precession works and film shooting drones with trails on. The playback kind of acts as a picture book how to make the gunsights when you stop frame. I gave Messiah one of these a while back. He seemed to be able to average 5-7 kills every sortie with his 47.

Making gunnery easier to learn will help some new customers feel less frustrated and more willing to stick around. After all, the K14 was the AAF admitting to the fact only a very small percentage of people can hit anything from a moving aircraft without a lot of help.

Hey semp, I want to make you feel really guilty. PM me and I will give you a gen8. You have a gen1.

[Vudu15]

Tracers throw me off when I shoot, I haven't used em in years. But I also shoot from any angle, like shooting any bird in flight once you've seen it move through the air enough you can guess with pretty good accuracy where your bullets need to go. Just takes time.

[bustr]

Most common pre war activity of the majority of fighter aces. Bird shooting.

Most common problem for the rest of the fighter pilots. Judging lead in low E turns 100-600 yards.

Why both the Allies and Germany came up with gyroscopic precession compensating gunsights K14 and EZ42. Japan was working on a prototype near the end, Type4 Model3.

Many AAF pilots in the pacific using the active gyroscopic compensating K14 after moving from the fixed 101Mil ring N9 or MK8, or even MkII. Complained that if they had to shut off the 6-star compensation reticle and go back to the 70Mil fixed ring, they couldn't calculate the lead anymore with a 70Mil ring. This is why the NAVY quickly moved to the 100Mil Mk8 in 1941 and nearly all allied fighters entering the ETO were retrofitted with British MkII to take advantage of the large ring for lead shooting. The AAF did not upgrade it's N3 to a 70Mil ring until 43 while most AAF Mk8 were mounted from the factory in P47 with P38 being upgraded to L3. N9 were field mounted into some fighters but, never became a factory standard due to the arrival of the K14 and fitting issues.

Note on factory installed N9:
◾all P-51D up to P-51D-20-NT 44-12852 and P-51D-20-NA 44-72226 (c). Contrary to what has often been written, the N-9 was never fitted to the P-51B & C as the required number of modifications to the cockpit and additional parts to be fabricated was considered ineffective.
◾P-63 from P-63A-10 through P-63C-5 replacing the N-3C gunsight.
◾A-26 (later B-26) replacing the N-3B or N-3C gunsight.


Learning gunnery in this game is hard for the average player. Based on Pareto's Principle of 80\20. Most of us have bad hit% in the game. I bet Lusche can prove that by pulling stats on all active individual players for any recent tour.

It would help retain newbies if the offline LCG gunsight had an active ring that changed diameter along with the computations from the green cross that holds it to the correct lead at range so new players can see how many rings, or smaller division of a ring to visualize holding over, above or under. That's what the hand book "Bag the Hun" was trying to teach in it's cartoonish format.

If someone is asking if tracers help with gunnery. It's more likely the player needs gunnery help and is working through improving his gunnery in general.

[Lusche]

Learning gunnery in this game is hard for the average player. Based on Pareto's Principle of 80\20. Most of us have bad hit% in the game. I bet Lusche can prove that by pulling stats on all active individual players for any recent tour.

You called, Sir?




As some players have freakishly high hit% while having only one or two sorties in fighter mode (coming across a formation of low buffs and then switching to attack mode for the rest of the tour), I simply limited this analysis to all pilots that had at least 100 sorties in fighter mode.
That's hundreds of players who collectively have more than 2/3rd of all fighter mode sorties & kills in the LW MA.

Clarification 12.02% pilots at 6% hit percentage means 12.02% of all those pilots with at least 100 sorties had a hit % between 6.00 and 7.99%

[FLOOB]

Uhh... if you're on someone's six whose saddled up on another guy and he starts seeing your tracers flying by, it will alert him to your presence.  This is big when using MGs where you will have to hit consistently for a slightly longer amount of time.  

If he's saddled up on your buddy then you want him to know you're shooting at him.

[artik]

If he's saddled up on your buddy then you want him to know you're shooting at him.

Yes, this is probably the most important factor when you want someone to break of your wingman's 6 it is good idea to make him see your tracers
even if you can't hit. It would be one of the primary reasons to have them on. Usually when pilot sees tracers near him he breaks for good.

[bustr]

From: Lusche

You called, Sir?




As some players have freakishly high hit% while having only one or two sorties in fighter mode (coming across a formation of low buffs and then switching to attack mode for the rest of the tour), I simply limited this analysis to all pilots that had at least 100 sorties in fighter mode.
That's hundreds of players who collectively have more than 2/3rd of all fighter mode sorties & kills in the LW MA.

Clarification 12.02% pilots at 6% hit percentage means 12.02% of all those pilots with at least 100 sorties had a hit % between 6.00 and 7.99%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not far off from some of the numbers I've seen in AAF reports from WW2.

After the K14 was in use, the numbers became skewed because many of the upper 80% started on their way to becoming 20%er's based on raw hit% per enemy combat action. I think the hit rates in general by pilots went up by 35-40% due to the active lead compensation from the K14. Especially once AAF command issued direct orders forcing all pilots to learn how to use it and stop switching it off for the 70Mil fixed ring. And then the reports from the PTO by pilots who having transitioned from large 100-105Mil ring N9, Mk8 or GM MKII to the K14. When the bulbs burned out or the gyroscopes malfunctioned. They no longer could calculate lead using the fixed 70Mil ring against Japanese fighters.

The problem had to do with the high speeds of the fighters. Gunners in bombers used a 2Rad system of rings 35Mil and 70Mil. The fighters were coming to them. Fighter to fighter needed a 3Rad or 100-105Mil ring to account for lead at their higher relative speeds. I'm still researching why the British terms stayed in use of 100mph or 70mph describing 3Rad and 2Rad rings. The AAF N-3 gun sights were referred to as 70mph gun sights and the British refused them if they could with lend lease aircraft. Or first thing swapped them out for MKII.

Again my reasoning for a dynamic diameter changing ring coupled with the LCG's green cross. While the cross gives you the point to place the center of your gun sight, the ring changes diameter to show you a relative sight picture over your fixed "gunsight.bmp" to see how many divisions of your ring you are holding over in your lead. A starting point for the new player to understand visualizing a sight picture and why it works the way it does.

OR

A place for players in general to use as a benchmark against problems they see in the game.

By the way, I think the LCG cross is calculating lead to the nearest extremity of the drone like the extreme tip of a bomber's inside wing. And even when you saw that wing off. It still calculates for that point in space regardless.

[save]

Gun percentage have much to do what plane you are flying, flying the A5 with 4 cannons would be one of the worst with 3 different trajectories.
I have much better gun% with the 109s than I ever will get in the 190s.

[guncrasher]

so I got the new updated gunsight from bustr.  now I dont play as much as I used to, so my aiming is not as good as it used to be.  anyway so I get into a fight with this p38 and I raked from head to toe when he tried to reverse.  I just followed the line on the gunsight.  next thing I know is I get a pm calling me a hacker as there's no way i could have made that shot as many g's as he was pulling.

I got another pm today one today, from another guy who thought it's impossible to make shots like that.  so please dont blame me, I am not a hacker.  blame bustr for that gunsight was his idea.  it was his fault.  leave me out of it.


semp

[ink]

so I got the new updated gunsight from bustr.  now I dont play as much as I used to, so my aiming is not as good as it used to be.  anyway so I get into a fight with this p38 and I raked from head to toe when he tried to reverse.  I just followed the line on the gunsight.  next thing I know is I get a pm calling me a hacker as there's no way i could have made that shot as many g's as he was pulling.

I got another pm today one today, from another guy who thought it's impossible to make shots like that.  so please dont blame me, I am not a hacker.  blame bustr for that gunsight was his idea.  it was his fault.  leave me out of it.


semp

 

people are funny.