Author Topic: No hurricanes???  (Read 2785 times)

Offline bozon

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2013, 04:37:06 AM »
Explain how burning trillions of tons of crap that's been locked inside the earth for millions of years can be a good thing for the planet. I'll wait.
It is not good because it spreads pollution, not because it changes the climate.

...and no, CO2 is not pollution.
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Offline sunfan1121

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2013, 05:47:14 AM »
The global climate is changing. We know this because the earth is 1.33 degrees warmer over the last 100 years. Fact.

Could it be because Co2 emissions have increased over that same period? I'm not smart enough to know that, but the vast majority of science supports that conclusion. Nothing is 100% certain, but to put it into perspective; scientist debate more about cigarettes health effects than they do about global warming.
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Offline bozon

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2013, 09:28:36 AM »
The global climate is changing. We know this because the earth is 1.33 degrees warmer over the last 100 years. Fact.

Could it be because Co2 emissions have increased over that same period? I'm not smart enough to know that, but the vast majority of science supports that conclusion. Nothing is 100% certain, but to put it into perspective; scientist debate more about cigarettes health effects than they do about global warming.
1.3 degrees or so is a "fact" in the scientific sense, which means that it has an uncertainty attached to it, and that uncertainty is quite large. But yes, most scientists will agree that there was a period of some warming. That is not the core of the debate.

The problems are the next two steps. First is the reason for this warming. Here you will start to find a much wider range of opinions among scientists. The answer "CO2" is highly debatable. It is not as simple as "more CO2 means more greenhouse effect", far from it. CO2 is a very inefficient greenhouse gas and the physics of radiation transfer through the atmosphere is quite complicated. In addition, CO2 does not like to be accumulated in the atmosphere and tends to be absorbed into the oceans. How much and how fast? again a complicated answer. There are many models that try to calculate these things and many of them are garbage. There are also other suggestions as to the cause of the warming. So, currently the real science is stuck in this stage of the physical "cause".

The next step *IF* you pin the warming on CO2 increase is whether or not human activity is responsible for the increase in CO2. Regardless of the answer, it is a hypothetical discussion until that *IF* is settled and them you can argue further about human contribution to CO2. The problem is that politicians and various ideological groups jump in and carry it from here. The "man made global warming climate change" theme debate is outside the realm of science. There chain of reasoning that leads from the measurements of global temperatures to "humans are to blame" is incredibly weak and this is what many scientists protest against. Yes many, there is no consensus about it.

Finally, the courses of action suggested to counter climate change are entirely ridiculous. No matter how much CO2 emission humanity can save by driving hybrid cars, CO2 quotas, and singing cumbaya, the achievement will be erased by the growth of the population within one generation. It is probably much more beneficial if we spend the money and resources to lean to live with the climate change than try to change the change. The OP had a few years without hurricanes - change is not bad for everyone.

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Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
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Offline GScholz

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2013, 11:20:40 AM »
Explain how burning trillions of tons of crap that's been locked inside the earth for millions of years can be a good thing for the planet. I'll wait.

CO2 is what plant life "breathe" during photosynthesis. More CO2 in the atmosphere means a more fertile Earth and more oxygen production. Right now our atmosphere is CO2 and oxygen deprived compared to earlier ages. Back in the ages of the Dinosaurs the Earth was a lot more fertile due to more CO2 and oxygen in the atmosphere (as much as 50% more). That's why plants and insects grew so big back then compared to now. Dragonflies back then had wingspans of two feet or more. More CO2 = more plant life = more oxygen = more animal life = bigger biosphere that can sustain more humans = win.



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Offline chaser

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 10:15:22 PM »
It does exist,  however, it exists in a natural cycle every few hundred thousands of years. We as humans just sped it up (a lot).

Oh, and this is going to turn into a purse fight sooner or later.


Yes climate change exists and is very real. But like you said its a natural cycle. Global warming as the "experts" say is happening is just a fraud and a scam so they can pad their pockets.

Offline titanic3

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2013, 10:21:46 PM »

Yes climate change exists and is very real. But like you said its a natural cycle. Global warming as the "experts" say is happening is just a fraud and a scam so they can pad their pockets.

Eh, still, I'd like to see the day where we no longer rely on limited resources. No "global warming" is just a nice side effect.  :)

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Offline sunfan1121

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 02:43:00 AM »
CO2 is what plant life "breathe" during photosynthesis. More CO2 in the atmosphere means a more fertile Earth and more oxygen production. Right now our atmosphere is CO2 and oxygen deprived compared to earlier ages. Back in the ages of the Dinosaurs the Earth was a lot more fertile due to more CO2 and oxygen in the atmosphere (as much as 50% more). That's why plants and insects grew so big back then compared to now. Dragonflies back then had wingspans of two feet or more. More CO2 = more plant life = more oxygen = more animal life = bigger biosphere that can sustain more humans = win.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
The majority of life on earth lives in the ocean. 30-40% of man made Co2 is dissolved by Oceans and lakes causing acidification. Fact. If you don't believe me, do the chemistry, and see what happenes when you dissolve Co2 in seawater. Try again.

Blasting the earth with billions of tons of anything over a short period of time is not ideal. Not even if your a 2 foot dragon fly.
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Offline sunfan1121

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2013, 02:50:54 AM »
.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2013, 03:58:33 AM »
The global climate is changing. We know this because the earth is 1.33 degrees warmer over the last 100 years. Fact.

Could it be because Co2 emissions have increased over that same period? I'm not smart enough to know that, but the vast majority of science supports that conclusion. Nothing is 100% certain, but to put it into perspective; scientist debate more about cigarettes health effects than they do about global warming.

Dude, the CO2 humans produce by breathing is far far greater than that caused by all our factories and assorted crap. Getting rid of all the idiots who believe in human caused climate change (because nobody can deny that we have affected it) would literally go further towards reducing Co2 emissions than getting rid of all our cars would.


The fact is that the world was far more than 1.33 degrees cooler than average about 250 years ago. And then it started to warm up before any major population booms and before large industrialization. The fact is that thinking Humanity can truly affect the climate to so great an extent is pretentious in the extreme.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Slate

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2013, 07:44:34 AM »
   I can't believe people still believe these so called scientists' findings after they have been caught falsifying data to support their conclusions.  :headscratch:

   If you're old enough to remember the Global Cooling push in the 70's/80's and how they changed their minds to Global Warming you will understand why they now are touting Climate Change.  :rofl  :rolleyes:

   Come on I know you people learned about statistics in school and how you can sway the outcome with selected data.

   I live in NJ and we are still recovering from the power this planet has over us. (1 year ago OP) Nothing is going to save you when the grace of God is gone even if we are all back living in Huts eating dung for dinner. 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 07:49:01 AM by Slate »
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Offline bozon

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2013, 09:27:49 AM »
The majority of life on earth lives in the ocean. 30-40% of man made Co2 is dissolved by Oceans and lakes causing acidification. Fact. If you don't believe me, do the chemistry, and see what happenes when you dissolve Co2 in seawater. Try again.

Blasting the earth with billions of tons of anything over a short period of time is not ideal. Not even if your a 2 foot dragon fly.
So now it is not a green house gas, it is acid. True CO2 is acid, but how much of it does you need in order to change the ph of the oceans? It seems like some people want the "CO2" to be the answer, they are just looking for the right question.

Humanity will not be able to reduce its CO2 emission without destroying modern society or killing billions of people. That is true whether man made CO2 has any effect on anything or not.
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Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline puller

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2013, 09:45:02 AM »
climate change =                  
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Offline puller

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2013, 10:00:54 AM »
Ok, well apparently I do not know how to post pics on here  :bhead  but that was supposed to show complete devastation in Moore, Oklahoma earlier this year....If 3 EF5's destroying your city doesn't mean something is wrong with the weather, then what does?  :noid
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Offline chaser

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2013, 11:09:14 AM »
You can't use one small event like that. And even though one year doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, keep in mind there were fewer tornado's this year than any other year in recorded history with data beginning in the mid 1950's. I believe there's only been a little over 500 tornadoes this year. But just two year ago in 2011 we had the most active tornado season ever recorded with over 2000 tornadoes. It's hard to use something that inconsistent to "prove" global warming.

Offline puller

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Re: No hurricanes???
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2013, 12:10:15 PM »
You can't use one small event like that. And even though one year doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, keep in mind there were fewer tornado's this year than any other year in recorded history with data beginning in the mid 1950's. I believe there's only been a little over 500 tornadoes this year. But just two year ago in 2011 we had the most active tornado season ever recorded with over 2000 tornadoes. It's hard to use something that inconsistent to "prove" global warming.


Small event?  :huh   I'm talking about total devastation man....Things like the 3 EF5's that have struck Moore in the last 15 years, the one that hit Alabama a couple of years ago, and the EF5 that killed Tim Samaras out by El Reno, Oklahoma with an almost 300mph windspeed, are happening all too often now.  I'm not using this as an attempt to "prove" global warming.  All I'm saying is something is wrong with the weather....you can't disagree that thing aren't slightly out of whack....
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