7 AXIS frame wins in a row

[Stampf]

Not to minimize the OP's feelings, as everyone looks at things differently but...

...to me a frame win, and points tally...have nothing to do with eachother.  You can tell me the Axis won frame 1 on points, but you can't tell me it was a victory for me.  Sure didn't feel like a victory, and with all 14 of us in the tower by 11:50 PM...no point total in the world will convince me otherwise, and frame 1 was a loss for me no matter what the points say.

It is never about points for me...Never.  Could care less.  A win, is when your local action is such that you enjoy the game, your mates, and the action you are involved in.  When all the guys hang out in the tower after the frame...discussing the action of the night, and still all fired up about it, because it was so intense...that is a win for me.

FSO would not change one single bit for me...if points and scoring were removed.  It's only, and always about the action.

[ink]

Not to minimize the OP's feelings, as everyone looks at things differently but...

...to me a frame win, and points tally...have nothing to do with eachother.  You can tell me the Axis won frame 1 on points, but you can't tell me it was a victory for me.  Sure didn't feel like a victory, and with all 14 of us in the tower by 11:50 PM...no point total in the world will convince me otherwise, and frame 1 was a loss for me no matter what the points say.

It is never about points for me...Never.  Could care less.  A win, is when your local action is such that you enjoy the game, your mates, and the action you are involved in.  When all the guys hang out in the tower after the frame...discussing the action of the night, and still all fired up about it, because it was so intense...that is a win for me.

FSO would not change one single bit for me...if points and scoring were removed.  It's only, and always about the action.

agree 100%

don't care who "wins" its the one time I try to stay alive...the one time I play as if it is "real" but ultimately its about flying with the guys and having a good night....and remembering the guys who really did this so we can safely sit at home and not worry about the virtual bullets.

[Shifty]

It is never about points for me...Never.  Could care less.  A win, is when your local action is such that you enjoy the game, your mates, and the action you are involved in.  When all the guys hang out in the tower after the frame...discussing the action of the night, and still all fired up about it, because it was so intense...that is a win for me.

FSO would not change one single bit for me...if points and scoring were removed.  It's only, and always about the action.

Well said, couldn't agree more.

[Dantoo]

I think that the argument that you make about points and how they determine tactics are valid.  That's what they should be used for.  This implies that they should be carefully crafted by the author.

The Axis <> Allies business less so.  Don't think that approach helps your primary argument much.  It actually derails it and takes the discussion into areas I don't think you meant it to go.

[Viper61]

Some good comments guys and a few fairly humorous ones 

Whether or not you agree with point values or not.  The points also serve to balance the game play.  A gauge if you will for the CM's to make changes as I see it.  And again my opinion on that subject.

I really enjoy the FSO as much as any of you do and have been at it for many years like many of the others making comments.  I fly every Friday that I can.

FSO scenario's and their frames are or should be balanced in as much as possible to allow either side an even chance to win.  Not follow historical outcomes, but fair and balanced game play.  So yes the AXIS should win half of the time even though we all know how the war ended for them.  That's not happening here.  I don't believe there is any conspiracy against the ALLIES either.  Just think the scenario's get posted as planned then after the frame 1 results not enough is done to correct the game play going into frames 2 and 3.  So I am requesting that the CM's look into it and if needed make some adjustments from frame to frame to balance the game play.  No one including myself would expect every frame to go perfectly or balanced.  And for new scenario's the Frame 01 is likely to be a learning experience so no issues there either.  But some times tweaking a frame isn't enough and larger corrections are needed.

I do think the comments as to the AXIS squads being better in some cases is spot on.  "Who" flys on a side is just as important as the numbers or strength of the squad.  There a few squads in here that do really well week to week and Kudos to you guys <S>  If that is the case then adjustments can be made in that area as well to balance the game play.  Doesn't mean a squad can't fly for the side they wish either.  Adjustments to fields, targets, aircraft min's and max's and point values and many other areas can be adjusted to even out the playing field (taking into account how good some of the squads are) and still make this a very enjoyable experience for all.

Generally speaking if your side loses in the points.  It probably was a bad night for your squad as well.  Meaning it probably wasn't as fun for you.  There are of course exceptions but just saying.

Again BIG <S> to the CM crew who work for free for our collective enjoyment.  Just my observations and comments and meant to help or make the game play better.

[j500ss]

Viper,

You make some very valid points. I get totally where you are coming from, but for me personally I am on the fence of CM's making adjustments in most cases, not sure it is truly a necessity.  One has to realize, as said earlier.... Being purely defensive , already gives the advantage, and it has been the rule of the day for what now?  The last 3 setups I believe.

The dedicated Axis only squads?  We all know the answer to that one for the most part.

 When all is said and done, Stampf pretty much drives the nail home. Squad, camaraderie,   Sure maybe a few tweaks here and there could,  and possibly should be looked at, who knows.

Our squad could care less about numbers, or scores.  It's all trivial and irrelevant at frames end.  We take our assignment regardless of what it is or what the odds may be and set out to carry it out successfully.  What we deem successful and what others may deem successful, is probably as clear as mud.

In frame 1, we were definitely successful, and to be honest.  We really should not have been.  Heck numbers to most people would most likely suggest otherwise, but you have to look at the bigger picture.  Target, strike package force size, defensive force size, mission objectives as laid out by the Cic's, losses vs damage inflicted vs rtb planes.  If your escort, it simply boils down to how many bombers did you escort in, vs damage, vs how many made it home.

Not long ago, we were escorts for a bomber mission.  We shot down a couple enemy, not many really overall though, but all the planes we escorted in to target, returned to base.  That was a 100% success in our eyes, even thought we lost a couple of our own.

We have a very set criteria we look at before we deem a mission as a failure or success, and it has nothing to do with kills, or name in lights kind of stuff for sure.  Yes, just getting all together for a couple hours and doing what we do, does in fact play into it all a little  for sure 

In the end,  if I were going to make any kind of constructive inputs at all,  it would probably be along the lines of " let's not make one side purely defensive month after month.  Change tends to keep things fresher.

Bring on frame 2!!   

 

[Squire]

Just a word on "points". Its a tall order to design an original event and then attempt to look forward into the future and figure out a balanced scoring design for an event that has never been run. There are so many variables that can come into play in a frame. We can't just cut and paste a scoring system from a past event as the side ratios, a/c, types of missions, terrain, ect can all be different. We do try but at some point the event simply has to go out the door as we do one every month. 

As far as the setups themselves in many ways its the same dilemma. Sometimes one side or another will have an edge for any number of reasons. We always try and keep it balanced but its unlikely to ever be 100 percent fair. P-51s for both sides flying over Big Ocean would be even odds but not that interesting.

Fly the event, have fun! (FSO Rule #1) and let the chips fall where they may. We all have good frames and bad.

[VonMessa]

Just a word on "points". Its a tall order to design an original event and then attempt to look forward into the future and figure out a balanced scoring design for an event that has never been run. There are so many variables that can come into play in a frame. We can't just cut and paste a scoring system from a past event as the side ratios, a/c, types of missions, terrain, ect can all be different. We do try but at some point the event simply has to go out the door as we do one every month. 

As far as the setups themselves in many ways its the same dilemma. Sometimes one side or another will have an edge for any number of reasons. We always try and keep it balanced but its unlikely to ever be 100 percent fair. P-51s for both sides flying over Big Ocean would be even odds but not that interesting.

Fly the event, have fun! (FSO Rule #1) and let the chips fall where they may. We all have good frames and bad.

As long as I get to hang-out with my friends and don't run out of beer, it is a good frame 

[Nefarious]

As long as I get to hang-out with my friends and don't run out of beer, it is a good frame 

Thread win.

[TheBug]

As long as I get to hang-out with my friends...

You're not flying with JG11 any more?? 






 

[VonMessa]

You're not flying with JG11 any more?? 






 

Smart-arse   

[68falcon]

Thread win.

I agree totally 

[Shifty]

You're not flying with JG11 any more?? 






 

  DasBug

[VonMessa]

DasBug

Otto 

[snakeplissken]

For the life of me, I have never understood why so many people come together on a Friday for an event (other than southern football).  FSO will take you to the heights of happiness only to crash you to the depths of despair (in some cases just a minute or two apart).  On the one hand, I have come to believe that you are all Type A personalities and you actually like it that FSO is so much more difficult than the MA.  On the other hand, some of the squaddies I fly with are just there to drink beer and yuk (or yak) around.  Still, others like the planning and the discipline... People... go figure.  From your FSO setup team I just wanted to say Thank You to the many squads and pilots who are dedicated to FSO.  You make our job easier.  You are watching the roster, you are getting players or invitees on roster. (Everyone in my Business Law class better recoginized I used that term incorrectly, but from the HTC stand point, that was funny).  In any event (also a bad pun) we appreciate your dedication and as a bonus.... we are not gonna make it any easier.