B-17 VNE - RL vs AH?

[SirNuke]

Tests are still running, but I just got the B-17 up to 400mph indicated / 525 mph true airspeed at ~17k without breaking up and without losing formation!

No wonder I could'nt really catch up at one time in a severely compressing Me 163 

Did you give a try to the lancasters? I bet they'go even faster

[earl1937]

some bombers really needs to be reviewed in the scope of flying in formation at high speed and maneuvering.

I would guess that the AH programmer who model the 17's tried to model the drones to react just like the mother ship. That is what they would have done in real life. The one thing that troubles me about these so called hvy bombers in this game is this: in a 60 degree bank, you are pulling 2 G's and I read somewhere, am not sure about this, but the 17 was only stressed for 3.6 degrees. That tells me that just a little more g loading on the wing and the main spar would fail and down they would come. No question that the 17 was one tough bird, all you have to do is look at some of the pic's of damage after missions during the war. I would also suspect that all of the manufacturers spec's were probably exceeded during combat quite often, with guys trying to stay alive.

[GScholz]

*sigh*  There has always got to be one.     ok ok ok.... how about "heavy bombers" not being able to withstand speeds that high.  Not the B29, Lancaster, B17, B24, Ju88, etc.   

Ju 88 was designed for dive-bombing...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6pmAVrbNjyE#t=93

[DaveBB]

At least one B-17 did a loop when climbing and flew through the prop-wash of another bomber.  It popped some rivets in the fuselage near the tail and the plane ended up coming out of the dive after exceeding 350mph.  I can't remember which book I read this in.  I'll see if I can find the anecdote on the net.

[earl1937]

At least one B-17 did a loop when climbing and flew through the prop-wash of another bomber.  It popped some rivets in the fuselage near the tail and the plane ended up coming out of the dive after exceeding 350mph.  I can't remember which book I read this in.  I'll see if I can find the anecdote on the net.

Talking about rivets, how much faster would the ole 17 cruise at, if it had flush rivets instead of the round headed raised ones?



I know that they did not have the technology methods for counter sunk rivets back in the day, but I think the B-29 was first production aircraft to use "counter" sunk rivets through out the aircraft. Not positive about that, but that is what I had heard at one time.

[GScholz]

What kind of rivets are used here?

[earl1937]

What kind of rivets are used here?

(Image removed from quote.)

I  think what you are looking at are called "Zeus" fasteners, which the British used on most all there aircraft which had metal panels and hatches. The Spits with wooden wings, had a fabric material I think, not sure if they ever made one with all metal wings!

[GScholz]

Spitfires were all-metal construction. No wood. You must be thinking of the Hurricane.

I'm asking about the rivets used on the wing itself, not the hatches.

Here's a closeup of the underside of the aileron:



What kind of rivets are those? They seem very flush with the metal panels.

[MiloMorai]

Look like pop rivets.

[pembquist]

Howard Hughes' H-1 had flush rivets in 1935.

[earl1937]

Howard Hughes' H-1 had flush rivets in 1935.

True, but was not a mass produced aircraft!

[XxDaSTaRxx]

The answer is no.
Granted this manual is for the F model.
I don't think they made that much of a change that the G model could do what AHII B-17s are capable of.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/173467808/Boeing-B-17-Flying-Fortress-Pilots-Manual

New Background, In case of drunk and forgets how to fly a 17

[Saxman]

some bombers really needs to be reviewed in the scope of flying in formation at high speed and maneuvering.

I'm a HUGE proponent of tightening the leash on drones, and further restricting the speed limit before drones start to pop.

[XxDaSTaRxx]

Got a question for you guys.

Recently I came across formations of B-17, which very effectively used shallow high speed dives as a defence. And when I say 'high speed', I really mean it - in three cases I was barely able to catch them in a Komet while running into serious compression problems.
Checking the films I found them flying at speeds over 450mph and up to 503 mph TAS at 23-24k in one case (while being fully able to retain the drones, they just started to warp around).

Anybody knows if that would be possible in real life?

[lyric1]

I'm a HUGE proponent of tightening the leash on drones, and further restricting the speed limit before drones start to pop.

I would second that.
Yes that is the lead Boston 4.5k away from the drones.