B-17 VNE - RL vs AH?

[Scca]

some bombers really needs to be reviewed in the scope of flying in formation at high speed and maneuvering.

Why, they are easy kills already.  Give them a chance so when the splode they feel like actually were able to defend themselves. 

[save]

You haven't met 99000 I recon, coming in from behind his set of b17s, at 1.5k out your plane already lost parts ,and have departed controlled flight before reaching 1.0k.

No heavy bomber could ever do raids unescorted during ww2 without suffer heavy losses, except for some isolated fights.

Also HTC say they are trying to be as close as real life as possible in FM's, and flying @ 525mph diving in a formation and still be able to shoot at 1.5k is not one of them.

Only some can catch a b17 doing that, and they have to close in painfully slow doing it, giving the gunners almost 800 yards in the bomber to shoot at the fighter before it can effectively shoot back.

[Scca]

You haven't met 99000 I recon, coming in from behind his set of b17s, at 1.5k out your plane already lost parts ,and have departed controlled flight before reaching 1.0k.

You see, I don't do that. There is a reason it's called "dead six"

I have gotten 2 of 3 of 99900's 17's and lived to land, but it requires correct tactics.  He's good (one of the best really), but not unbeatable.  Unless I get careless bombers are scalps.

[save]

You see, I don't do that. There is a reason it's called "dead six"

I have gotten 2 of 3 of 99900's 17's and lived to land, but it requires correct tactics.  He's good (one of the best really), but not unbeatable.  Unless I get careless bombers are scalps.

You misunderstand me, If you meet a B17 doing a dive at 400 mph+ dive tactic you are not going to perform a classic high-12 attack or anything fancy, that's what I mean.
I've met mr 99000 in a classic high-12 attack, I  get one plane but paid with a smoked engine.

At 1k out if pilot is a good shot, and you are in a normal fighter coming in from 11-1 o'clock, you have the engine hurt or worse, I can name at least 3 guys that do that regularly in b17's, not any other plane though.

[Brooke]

In scenarios, if bombers are unescorted and get attacked by any significant force of fighters, they get mauled.

Not every bomber gunner is 999000, and not every attacking fighter pilot is Thrila, so you can't base analyses on assuming everyone is like that.  If you go by what happens in scenarios, fights tend to turn out a lot more like what historical accounts are like.

[save]

in the scenarios I've been flying the 110g2, its nerve-breakingly slow to catch the b17s flying @ 30k, which it was not IRL, they where flying less than 200mph in formation, in AH about 50% faster.

[XxDaSTaRxx]

You haven't met 99000 I recon, coming in from behind his set of b17s, at 1.5k out your plane already lost parts ,and have departed controlled flight before reaching 1.0k.

No heavy bomber could ever do raids unescorted during ww2 without suffer heavy losses, except for some isolated fights.

Also HTC say they are trying to be as close as real life as possible in FM's, and flying @ 525mph diving in a formation and still be able to shoot at 1.5k is not one of them.

Only some can catch a b17 doing that, and they have to close in painfully slow doing it, giving the gunners almost 800 yards in the bomber to shoot at the fighter before it can effectively shoot back.

Dead six my friend. Just as dangerous as the purple heart corner. Depending on your leverage with the tail, you've constantly got at least 4 guns on you. There's only a small zone where the 17 can only shoot it's tail gun into the enemy behind it.

[Brooke]

I've heard people say that B-17's flew at about 180 mph indicated.  In scenarios, they fly at about 200 mph indicated (or less for groups where the GL throttles down a bit to hold better formation).  That's not a huge difference, especially considering that fighters cruise around in AH at full power, which they didn't typically do in real life.  In scenarios, B-17 max alts are typically 24-25k.

Here's a shot from my cockpit in Der Grosse Schlag.

[earl1937]

I've heard people say that B-17's flew at about 180 mph indicated.  In scenarios, they fly at about 200 mph indicated (or less for groups where the GL throttles down a bit to hold better formation).  That's not a huge difference, especially considering that fighters cruise around in AH at full power, which they didn't typically do in real life.  In scenarios, B-17 max alts are typically 24-25k.

Here's a shot from my cockpit in Der Grosse Schlag.

(Image removed from quote.)

Good post! What I do is fly my 17s at 35 inches MP, that way if someone is more than 1.0K away, they can catch up much easier. I also never turn more than a 30 degree change in direction at any one time and I do that at a "standard rate" of 3 degrees per second, which makes it much easier for the bombers to stay in formation. When turning the bombers on the inside can reduce power slightly and the ones on the outside of the turn can add power and that way, we can keep the formation intact. 35" and full increase RPM gives us about 190 IAS.

[Brooke]

I'm with you on that, Earl.  In the recent Battle of Britain 2013 scenario, I had our He 111's at 1.25 ATA, well off the max throttle setting of 1.35 ATA, in order to maintain formation integrity.