F6f vs. P-47d11

[Changeup]

It isn't just style....

Furballing virtually guaranties you a poor result

I thought you said it wasn't about style...

Its all about style.  You don't have those scores if you furball.  No one does.

[Brooke]

Its all about style.  You don't have those scores if you furball.  No one does.

I do!

Oh, wait . . . that was 37 to 1, not 1 to 37.  Never mind.

[bozon]

It is.
The F6F is mostly used for bomb hauling in AH, some notable exceptions doesn't change this in general. The 47-D11 however is almost always used as a pure fighter.

The D11 is an experts plane. No one will roll out the jug with the bird cage canopy and worst climb rate for air to air work and jabo capability is really minimal. The F6F on the other hand is one of the two standard CV Janos and many will take it over the F4U because it is easier to get off the carrier and it climbs better.

Comparing the K/D of them on each other does not say much aboutb true capability.

[mechanic]

This is very true. The Hellcat is not as effective in the MA these days imo . 1-1 it can still take on almost anything . But in multi-con engagements it has 2 problems that combine to hinder your survival  , the views , which restrict your SA at times , and the fact that you are slower than 90% of the planes being flown , you just can't get out of there even if you do manage to see that you should.   I flew a few sorties in la7's and spit 16's last night and the fact that you have an escape from trouble option just makes such a huge difference in todays MA.

I've also found  (and it might be being paranoid) that hellcats seem to be high on peoples priority kill list as a nice easy target . They are big ,slow ,  can't get away , generally easy to shoot at . Give me a choice between trying to get guns on a Yak and guns on a hellcat , I know myself , I'd be thinking "Kill the fattest one first"

This is very true. The other big deciding factor for me to target the hellcat first is the excellent gun package she boasts. I'd much rather take 6x50cals out of the fight than a single pop gun.

[Randy1]

The F6f rear via is not a big problem in a fight as much as it is in transit. In a fight I  much more vigilant in my SA and frequent turns allow you to check 6.

I need to spend some time in the F6F just for that very reason.  Good point.

[Widewing]

I thought you said it wasn't about style...

Its all about style.  You don't have those scores if you furball.  No one does.

That's exactly what I said.  You can't furball with any expectation of landing those kills. You may get lucky and do so now and then, but it's far more common not to get back in one piece. So no, you won't have a very good K/D. My point is, that you can't take an average fighter and run up a high K/D on style alone. You have to be good enough to consistently defeat better aircraft, sometimes multiple aircraft, often having the tactical advantage over you. I enjoy that kind of challenge (which is why I often fly the A-20 as a fighter).

So, relative to style... You can adhere to various styles of game play. The better sticks can compete within any "style" of game play. However, the furball doesn't always favor skill.

I join in the furball on occasion. I prefer, however, the 1v1 fight. The question to be answered is, which is the better determinator of skill, a barroom brawl, or a boxing bout? It boils down to what one enjoys.

[Changeup]

The question to be answered is, which is the better determinator of skill, a barroom brawl, or a boxing bout? It boils down to what one enjoys.

Which is called "style" as in style of play.  Question answered.

[Debrody]

The Jug because it looks prettyer 

Seriously, the hellcat turns better for sure, but thats an unimportant factor for me since i didnt feel comfortable in it every single time i got slow why the jug did exactly the same moves i wanted her to do. Others might find it going the other way though. The rest is just SA and a friend as a wingman - both planes are quite good.

[Scca]

Jug.... two more fi-dees...

[Spikes]

The Jug doesn't dive better. The P-47s compress at a lower speed (Mach 0.73 vs Mach 0.75). Dive acceleration is virtually the same.

I lol'd. Thanks Widewing.

[DmonSlyr]

1v1 in the MA I give it to the hellcat even if the 47 has E advantage and alt It can easily out maneuver any p47, yes even the 11, and could easily reverse the 47 using the planes full potential .

In a furball situation I give it to the 47. It can pick and use its 8 guns to crush some one who is engaged. It also has better E management at high speeds. Therefore it is a little easier if E is kept to get away from hoard of attackers.

If the 47 gets slow it doesn't have the ability to reverse as well as the f6f if cons are a higher speed attacking you. If 47 gets slow it is in trouble.

The views are pretty terrible in the F6f which can put it at a disadvantage. However it can take off from CV and jabo bases off the water.

It depends on flying style, experience, and certain scenarios but both planed easily have there advantages and disadvantages given the types of troubles you like to partake in

[Butcher]

I always had trouble flying the D-11, unless I was at ALT with speed, I usually ran into trouble - slow acceleration and climb rate was my biggest problem - making the 47-D11 a BnZ unless I was well over 20k.

Thus being said, the Hellcat is pretty slow, however it can Turn quite well and climb decently. Under 20k it holds the edge in my opinion - however above 20k the 47-D starts to shine..

I've been in a few fights above 20k, unless the Jug makes serious mistakes it shouldn't lose - however watch the acceleration if you slow down - the hellcat can be tricky.

Below 10k, the Hellcat can win easily, above 20k? Jug should.

[texasfighter]

Top speed of the Hellcat was not 400mph (either the -3 or the -5). Tests done at Boscombe Down and Patuxent River:

[Widewing]

Top speed of the Hellcat was not 400mph (either the -3 or the -5). Tests done at Boscombe Down and Patuxent River:

(Image removed from quote.)

You are incorrect. Why?

The Brits didn't fly the F6F-5 with a secondary Pitot probe. Thus, they failed to correct for the large error induced by the poor location of factory pitot tube static port.

The only other F6F-5 on that chart was tested at MIL power, not WEP. Grumman tests and tests performed by TAIC demonstrated speeds well in excess of 400 mph... TAIC is the Technical Air Intelligence Center at NAS Anacostia.

From TAIC Report 17, the tests flown at NAS Patuxent River, November 1944.



If we compare performance in Aces High between the F6F-5 and Zeke 52 (A6M5b), you'll see that the F6F-5 is too slow, and the Zero is too fast.