Have you lost any energy?

[DaveBB]

A very common 1vs1 fight goes like this.  Two planes from opposing sides see each other, and turn towards each other.  As the two planes pass each other (guns blazing usually), one plane goes into a hard horizontal turn.  The other plane does an immelman (pulls vertical until inverted, rolls out wings level).  The plane that uses the vertical maneuvering, has he actually lost any energy?  He's traded his kinetic energy into potential, right?

[Latrobe]

Pulling any G's will use E, so he does lose some E to pull the G's to perform an immelman. He does however now have the altitude advantage since the other guy pulls a flat turn. Plus, as you said, he has converted his kinetic energy into potential energy.

Looking at speeds alone, the guy who pulls the flat turn has more E. Looking at it positionally, the guy who pulls the immelman has the advantage and I think positioning is more important that speed.

[Soulyss]

with WW2 era aircraft in most cases maneuvering is going to result in an overall net loss of E, where the advantage lies is managing those loses better than your opponent and buying an advantage with the E you do spend.

[dedalos]

Pulling any G's will use E, so he does lose some E to pull the G's to perform an immelman. He does however now have the altitude advantage since the other guy pulls a flat turn. Plus, as you said, he has converted his kinetic energy into potential energy.

Looking at speeds alone, the guy who pulls the flat turn has more E. Looking at it positionally, the guy who pulls the immelman has the advantage and I think positioning is more important that speed.

I better stop flat turning at the merge and go for the imel so I can get the advantage then 

[cobia38]

 most planes I encounter run after the first turn

[jeep00]

most planes I encounter run after the first turn

I don't think it counts as running when they are on your six doing it..... j/k <S>
To the op I enjoy that scenario and know if they DON'T come in guns blazing it will be a good fight. But being the MA, the e loss of neither will matter when the three cons drop in to "assist".

[gyrene81]

most planes I encounter run after the first turn

i ran out of energy just reading that...     

[uptown]

most planes I encounter run after the first turn

That's because they're laughing at the dogfighting A20. Clearly he's drunk and doesn't know what he's doing. 

[sunfan1121]

I better stop flat turning at the merge and go for the imel so I can get the advantage then 

   

[cobia38]

That's because they're laughing at the dogfighting A20. Clearly he's drunk and doesn't know what he's doing. 

 yes clearly drunk,ignor all A20s,they are harmless...... carry on 

[mechanic]

Pulling any G's will use E, so he does lose some E to pull the G's to perform an immelman. He does however now have the altitude advantage since the other guy pulls a flat turn. Plus, as you said, he has converted his kinetic energy into potential energy.

Looking at speeds alone, the guy who pulls the flat turn has more E. Looking at it positionally, the guy who pulls the immelman has the advantage and I think positioning is more important that speed.

I believe E is always considered as the combination of potential and kinetic, so the guy who turned flat might have more speed, but not more E. Not unless he merged with a lot more speed than the other guy.

[Latrobe]

I believe E is always considered as the combination of potential and kinetic, so the guy who turned flat might have more speed, but not more E. Not unless he merged with a lot more speed than the other guy.

Well I'm not very smart, so I just consider E and speed the same thing. 

[DaveBB]

Remember, in these scenarios, we are just examining one variable.  Same exact planes, same load-out, same pilot skill.  Yes, the 'E' I am talking about is Kinetic + Potential.

[uptown]

So what's your point? 

[mechanic]

Well I'm not very smart, so I just consider E and speed the same thing. 

hehe.. well I think you're plenty smart enough to shoot me down and I wouldn't want you to get any smarter by that token. But knowledge is not to do with smart. Smart is the processor speed and knowledge in on the hard drive. Einstein was wrong, E=Alt+Speed  not mc2