Author Topic: I will survive!  (Read 4137 times)

Offline skorpx1

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2013, 12:02:14 AM »
109K seems to be pretty survivable. High speed at any altitude, tied for second best climb in the game, and enough acceleration you can afford to blow quite a bit of E on hard evasive maneuvers.
Lol no.


A plane that can take a lot of hits - P-47D-40. Absolute tank.

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2013, 11:02:05 AM »
Lol no.


A plane that can take a lot of hits - P-47D-40. Absolute tank.

Of course its an absolute tank. It needs to be, considering it maneuvers like a freight van, has a big target profile, and is only exceptionally fast once you get above 20k. Hell, my 109K could run you down or escape your WEP'd up D40 at most altitudes on military power. With WEP my K4 is 20+MPH faster right up through 23k or so.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Saxman

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2013, 11:24:49 AM »
The US Navy fighters in general can be damn tough to bring down. The F4F/FM-2 are just plain hard to hit solidly because they're so small, and even if you do hit them solid they can still soak up a ton of punishment before going down, while both the F6F and F4U generally need a good sustained hosing to drop (though the Corsair is more prone to losing the outer wing section). Even cannon fire may need more than a snapshot
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline skorpx1

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2013, 12:29:14 PM »
Of course its an absolute tank. It needs to be, considering it maneuvers like a freight van, has a big target profile, and is only exceptionally fast once you get above 20k. Hell, my 109K could run you down or escape your WEP'd up D40 at most altitudes on military power. With WEP my K4 is 20+MPH faster right up through 23k or so.

From my experiences a good burst from 6 .50 cals seem to take it down quite easily. A true flying tank in game is the IL-2. Cannon after cannon round just seem to be absorbed into the skin of the plane.


As far as that K4 "run you down" thing, no. The P47's are far heavier than the K4 and are the best divers in game.

Offline Karnak

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2013, 12:40:36 PM »
The P47's are far heavier than the K4 and are the best divers in game.
I don't think that is universally true.
Petals floating by,
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Offline skorpx1

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2013, 01:12:01 PM »
I don't think that is universally true.
The P47's don't compress like the 109 does at about 450 MPH.
The P47's have better stability and handling at higher speeds.
The P47's also are more resistant to parts shredding off in high speed dives.

In theory the P47 is technically better than the K4.

Offline Karnak

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2013, 01:29:10 PM »
The P47's don't compress like the 109 does at about 450 MPH.
The P47's have better stability and handling at higher speeds.
The P47's also are more resistant to parts shredding off in high speed dives.

In theory the P47 is technically better than the K4.
Sorry, I meant about being the best divers in the game.  They do compress so dives from high altitude may be better for P-51s and Spitfires.  It dives that terminate below 480mph the Mossie may gain ground on the P-47, not sure.
Petals floating by,
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2013, 01:38:46 PM »
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2013, 04:41:42 PM »
I notice FM2s and A-20s take a disproportionate amount of 50s to kill.  I usually fly the 51D, and I can't count on a snapshot to kill either one of them.  So it's either don't engage, or chop throttle, drop the flaps and see if I can nail them before I am out of E.
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Saxman

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2013, 04:47:58 PM »
I notice FM2s and A-20s take a disproportionate amount of 50s to kill.  I usually fly the 51D, and I can't count on a snapshot to kill either one of them.  So it's either don't engage, or chop throttle, drop the flaps and see if I can nail them before I am out of E.

Pretty bad proposition. You're giving up pretty much every advantage the P-51 has and playing right into the strength of the FM-2.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Zed

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2013, 11:14:25 AM »

If you find yourself completely compromised, i.e. at a major disadvantage in E,  pursued by multiple attackers or up against an uber fighter,  you might have fun in a zero.  Sure, it can't take hits.   What it can do is evade really well while maintaining the ability to achieve superior angles and turn to the offensive.   If the pilot maintains SA, and has reasonable familiarity with the aircraft, you will find him hard to shoot down.  If he can get the fight co-E, then you'll really struggle unless you're much better.  In WWII, zeros were lost in droves only when the quality of the Japanese aircrew had been significantly degraded when compared to US pilots.   I do not fear fighting anything in the zero one on one - even when I'm at a significant E disadvantage.   If I'm in most other fighters in a 1-1, I feel that the relative E state and relative aircraft performance are much more likely to dictate the outcome.   When you practice what I call the boom and turn, then the zero is at its best.   This is when you have E (usually much more altitude) than an opponent.   You dive on him and raise your airspeed to the point that his nominal advantage in straight line speed is nullified.   If he tries to run, you will overtake him.   If he tries to turn then he finds himself turn-fighting a zero.  The key is superior SA.   You must have it to survive in a zero.   I get killed often, but mostly on slash attacks by unseen cons in 1 vs. multiple opponent situations.   I know you'll laugh, but I think that if I play my game, I have the strongest chance of survival in an A6M5.   You'll find it hard to hit me in your P47 one on one and I'm certainly no great pilot.  Granted, your P47 or F6 can soak up damage.  It's much easier to hit you, though...

Offline DaveBB

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2013, 03:50:32 PM »
Spitfire had a higher critical mach than the P-51, which in turn had a higher critical mach than the P-47.  So the P-47 should not be the best diver in the game.

So what factors effect diving capability?  All planes are acted on by gravity (9.8m/s^2), so that's a constant.  So wouldn't it boil down to drag and thrust?  Wouldn't the plane that accelerates fastest in level flight also accelerate fastest in a dive?
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Saxman

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2013, 04:15:14 PM »
To an extent, but weight also has a bit to do with it as well. Keep in mind that the Corsair and Hellcat don't have great level acceleration, but both have very good dive acceleration.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline USCH

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2013, 08:04:55 PM »
The P47's don't compress like the 109 does at about 450 MPH.
The P47's have better stability and handling at higher speeds.
The P47's also are more resistant to parts shredding off in high speed dives.

In theory the P47 is technically better than the K4.
I never understood this thinking... When you have (or worse don't) altitude, diving only gives you so much time to get separation. And then the guy runs you down. Now the K-4 will climb, right to 19,000ft wep up and run you until your 100+ miles behind enemy lines if he needs to. Diving IMHO is just as valuable as roll rate. Ya it's good, but it won't keep you alive.

Offline Saxman

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Re: I will survive!
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2013, 09:04:53 PM »
Actually, rate of roll is VERY valuable. The ability to change directions quickly can make a HUGE difference in a fight

Also, keep in mind diving ability has more value than an ability to get away. If I'm in a Corsair, I have confidence that aside from a handful of opponents, if someone goes nose down to try to escape they're not going to get away from me because I WILL run them down, and at high dive speeds will also be able to outmaneuver them in a high-speed dive, to boot.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.