Author Topic: Why not a Korean War Arena?  (Read 2908 times)

Offline HighTone

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2013, 09:06:38 PM »
I'm just going to say......

+1 for the Ki-100, J2M3, D4Y and the Ki-44.

oh.....and I've been here for five years  :joystick:

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Offline Drano

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2013, 09:13:32 PM »
Well, it beats an empty EW MW.

How's that? By adding another empty arena? Don't say I don't know that because I've been there and done that. It'd be emptier than they are. A basically two plane arena. Oh yeah--big draw.

HTC have bigger fish to fry than adding another genre.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2013, 09:17:59 PM »
I posted this not long ago in a response to another idea in the wishlist forum (slightly edited):

I'd still like to see a Korean arena added at some point.  A very few additions would be needed to get it in place (A-26, F-86, Mig 15) along with moving a few of the planes we have now over to fill it out (P-38, P-51, etc.).  Planes like the A-26 could be used there and in the MA while several development opportunities would present themselves (F8F, later Spitfires, etc.) for some of those "just missed the war" additions people wish for.

Although I realize it would be a little populated arena it would provide a unique and fun diversion to the MA from time to time like WWI provides now.  In fact, a bridge between WWI and WWII might allow a Spanish Civil War arena as well.

The problem I see with EW and MW as they stand is that there's nothing new there.  Everything in those arenas is available in the MA.  IMO the real expansion areas are in the fringes around WWII where there's still a ton of devlopment opportunity where each arena would bring something unique and different as a draw to both current and potential players.

There's a lot that could be done with what actually saw action at some point in time.  There's also no need to dive in head first.  Dipping a toe in these waters then adding to them slowly over time would be fine so as not to detract too much from MA development.


And yes, I still find enough people in WWI to play there once or twice a month and it's still a lot of fun when I do.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 09:20:37 PM by BaldEagl »
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2013, 11:46:50 PM »
We'd get much more bang for the buck with that effort put into other things.

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2013, 11:53:52 PM »
Kids nowadays think props are for boats. Why not Mig Alley?  86, 15, Pony, Yak, Sea Fury/Tempest, Sea Fire, Hawg, etc....  That could drive interest more than EW and MW.
having been here for almost 14 years, and having professionally reviewed combat simulators for a living in a past life, Korean War idea is nice, but not feasible because of the power balance issues for each side.  I also remember a game called Mig Alley that didn't do well because it was done badly - it was actually done quite well.  Just a very boring game really.  (And I still own it) ;)

As an AvA admin, I have a hard time balancing mid to late war match ups due to the vastly superior Allied aircraft.  Now throw in North Korea with WWII era vehicles and aircraft against the Allied might and 500-600 MPH fighter engagements, it's a big PITA.  Sure the NK has the Mig, but that was it from a balance perspective.

We sometimes run Korean War scenarios in the AvA with Me-262's and Ardo bombers to simulate the belligerents but even when it's 262 vs 262 the fighting as very very different than prop fighting.  By the time you've perhaps crossed path with an enemy fighter three or four passes, 10 minutes has passed.  And if you want to disengage, you just keep flying straight after a merge.  It gets boring quickly, especially if you've tried to dogfight a couple times and each time it lasted 3 seconds before you went down in flames.

We found in the AvA that most Korean War dogfights lasts seconds if you're good. One snapshot on a merge and then it's over - Jaeger and I have had battles in the AvA in our 262's that we're exciting from a jet perspective, but they either lasted 10 minutes or hard turns, merges, evasions, and extensive manoeuvring at 500mph.  Sometimes we spent 10 minutes of maneuvering for 5 seconds of combat.  Korean War is just not that interesting as jet to jet combat is a different animal than prop vs prop combat.

So no, I wouldn't recommend a Korean War. :(
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 12:01:32 AM by Mister Fork »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 09:53:40 AM »
Valid points.  It was just a thought.  <S>
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Offline artik

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2013, 10:20:30 AM »
having been here for almost 14 years, and having professionally reviewed combat simulators for a living in a past life, Korean War idea is nice, but not feasible because of the power balance issues for each side.  I also remember a game called Mig Alley that didn't do well because it was done badly - it was actually done quite well.  Just a very boring game really.  (And I still own it) ;)

As an AvA admin, I have a hard time balancing mid to late war match ups due to the vastly superior Allied aircraft.  Now throw in North Korea with WWII era vehicles and aircraft against the Allied might and 500-600 MPH fighter engagements, it's a big PITA.  Sure the NK has the Mig, but that was it from a balance perspective.

We sometimes run Korean War scenarios in the AvA with Me-262's and Ardo bombers to simulate the belligerents but even when it's 262 vs 262 the fighting as very very different than prop fighting.  By the time you've perhaps crossed path with an enemy fighter three or four passes, 10 minutes has passed.  And if you want to disengage, you just keep flying straight after a merge.  It gets boring quickly, especially if you've tried to dogfight a couple times and each time it lasted 3 seconds before you went down in flames.

We found in the AvA that most Korean War dogfights lasts seconds if you're good. One snapshot on a merge and then it's over - Jaeger and I have had battles in the AvA in our 262's that we're exciting from a jet perspective, but they either lasted 10 minutes or hard turns, merges, evasions, and extensive manoeuvring at 500mph.  Sometimes we spent 10 minutes of maneuvering for 5 seconds of combat.  Korean War is just not that interesting as jet to jet combat is a different animal than prop vs prop combat.

So no, I wouldn't recommend a Korean War. :(

I flew once in Target Korea (unfortunately this game is dead today) it was very nice I had a blast (when there were players online) I can tall you few things. Jets are very different but most of the time the difference is that you need to think differently. When you can pull from 0 to 10k it is different. Different energies different responses. The gunnery without gyro site is very hard (if possible at all)

It is just different.

About balance. MiG-15 kicks the F-86s bellybutton (despite that most players from USA think the other way around). F-86 gun package is a practical joke. There were stories of MiG-15 landing with hundreds of scratches without any damage. However they both very capable planes.

To make stuff more fun you need to go not on Korean war but rather early generation jets:

Meteor, Vampire, MiG-15, F-86, F-84, Mystere IV, Ouragan - now you have good setup as for example Mystere is very good match for MiG-15 (way better than F-86) and now you can choose.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2013, 12:57:47 PM »
Migs!

my word awesome :old:
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2013, 01:19:49 PM »
The Mig 15 had many advantages over the F-86, but the F-86 had better handling at high speed than the Mig 15.  (I think of it as being like a FW 190 vs. planes that don't handle well at speed.)  The F-86F deployed later on was closer in performance to the Mig 15.

One of the things that is especially interesting to me about the Mig 15 is that it didn't have an axial-flow turbine -- it had a Whittle-type centrifugal-flow design (the Mig 15's Nene engine being a reverse engineered version of the British engines sold to the Soviets).

Offline zack1234

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2013, 01:23:32 PM »
I heard that the other day that the Labour government sold them to Soviets.

Stalin said they must be mad selling them us :rofl
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2013, 01:32:44 PM »
I heard that the other day that the Labour government sold them to Soviets.

Stalin said they must be mad selling them us :rofl
The British government at that time was highly naive about the Soviets.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2013, 01:54:06 PM »
The British government at that time was highly naive about the Soviets.

I don't think that it was naivete, but something more purposeful and overt.  There were many people (especially among intellectuals) in the West overall (US and UK included) who were pro communism, pro socialism, and thus pro Soviet and who willfully ignored and misrepresented many egregious things.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2013, 02:19:47 PM »
I don't think that it was naivete, but something more purposeful and overt.  There were many people (especially among intellectuals) in the West overall (US and UK included) who were pro communism, pro socialism, and thus pro Soviet and who willfully ignored and misrepresented many egregious things.
That is, I think, overstating it.  There were many who were sympathetic, such as the British Labor government, and who refused to see the evil in the Soviets, but not many were actual communists.  The Democrats in the US had a purge in the late '40s to get rid of those who were sympathetic and break all ties to the radical left in the USA.  It took a lot longer for Labor to do the same in the UK.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2013, 05:18:56 PM »
Sometimes I think HTC added those other arenas just to prove a point to those who kept asking for them.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Why not a Korean War Arena?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2013, 06:06:28 PM »
I always thought the Mig-15 was one of the sexiest looking aircraft ever built until one day last week when my desktop opened with a pic of a Mig-15 and a Mig-17.  Now I'm torn.  They're both pretty sexy.
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