Wing Man Real and in AH

[Puma44]

For in game, Jappa and I found that 1,000 to 1,500 was optimum to always be able to maintain mutual support and get an expeditious kill and both of us to survive for the next engagement.  Anything farther out tended to result in one or both of us hung out without the desired mutual support.   

[muzik]

Our small squad sucks at wing man tactics.

I was watching a video on WW2 tactics.  There is always talk of the wing man staying with his partner.  I came away with the impression from this and other sources the wing man stayed very close to his fellow squad mate so he could watch for the pick as we call it in AH.

I have tried staying to close to my wingman in AH.  I can but at the cost of checking our six.  How in real life could a wing man follow his squad mate and still check six?  It is just as hard to follow someone you are trying to shoot as it is to follow a wing man.

What is the best flying arrangement in AH for lead and wing man?

The stories you've heard are frequently originated by those who rarely if ever got into real dogfights. And by real, I mean two opposing groups that were completely intent on killing the enemy in the "here and now" and end up in swirling dogfights. They did not maintain formation on a wingman unless the leader only BnZ'd.

Those kinds of fights existed in situations like the battle of Brittain when forces and equipment were fairly equal. If you read stories from those battles and others like many engagements in the South Pacific, you will hear a different story of pilots getting separated from their units in dogfights that spread out hundreds of miles.

You have no peripheral vision in AH so you will never get into hard turning dogfights while keeping track of your surroundings AND staying on your partners wing. It's not possible. If you want to BnZ together, maybe.

The best chance is to stay close and watch from a distance. You attack anything that saddles on him, he does the same for you.

[Oldman731]

For in game, Jappa and I found that 1,000 to 1,500 was optimum to always be able to maintain mutual support and get an expeditious kill and both of us to survive for the next engagement.  Anything farther out tended to result in one or both of us hung out without the desired mutual support. 

I dreaded to see that team.  Good advice, based upon good results.

- oldman

[fbEagle]

If we're going to do wing-man tactics we try to keep about a 1K horizontal separation with the wing-man roughly 1500 ft high and to the 4-5oclock position of the lead. This usually works pretty well for the wing-man to watch for picks, and also to keep his lead in sight. It depends on the situation though, a 2 on 1 or a 2 on 2 we just split and go after both of them. Stay close to your wing-man so you can help him out if they need it.

[Puma44]

If we're going to do wing-man tactics we try to keep about a 1K horizontal separation with the wing-man roughly 1500 ft high and to the 4-5oclock position of the lead. This usually works pretty well for the wing-man to watch for picks, and also to keep his lead in sight. It depends on the situation though, a 2 on 1 or a 2 on 2 we just split and go after both of them. Stay close to your wing-man so you can help him out if they need it.

Line abreast work even better for visual look out.  

[fbEagle]

Line abreast work even better for visual look out.  

easier to jump on your leads 6 if your slightly behind him though, only reason we run it like that

[Puma44]

easier to jump on your leads 6 if your slightly behind him though, only reason we run it like that

...and that makes it easier for a bandit to jump the trailing wingman because the lead can't physically clear as much of the wingman's six.  Effective use of BFM allows either to get on the other's six to work an attacking bandit.  

[MutleyBR]

Our small squad sucks at wing man tactics.

I was watching a video on WW2 tactics.  There is always talk of the wing man staying with his partner.  I came away with the impression from this and other sources the wing man stayed very close to his fellow squad mate so he could watch for the pick as we call it in AH.

I have tried staying to close to my wingman in AH.  I can but at the cost of checking our six.  How in real life could a wing man follow his squad mate and still check six?  It is just as hard to follow someone you are trying to shoot as it is to follow a wing man.

What is the best flying arrangement in AH for lead and wing man?

Hi Randy!

Check your Private Messages.

Mutley 

[save]

Fighting with wingman requires 2 things, thrust and ability of your wingman/wingmen/plane type.
In LD flying together is what our squad is all about.
This can be frowned upon by some, but its fun, and it increase your chances of RTB.

I know hanging a con will get his butt kicked, and my bacon saved with a good wingman.
If you are flying deep down in the weeds, chased by those LA-7's the high squaddie with the right plane dives in to save the day for you, and also send that LA-7 where is belongs.

Some things I have noticed trying different tactics:

1-2k distance between wingmen  doesn't work in general, 2-4k is more of a norm in MA.

Use plane types  that work good together. close-in fighters like the zeke and a brick 190 makes it much harder to work good.

Use Teamspeak or in-game voice, give short exact instructions what you are doing and enemy plane/position and closure if you are chased, and wingman gives distance to target, closure, and if he wants to shorten path by you turning to either side.

Trying to help green planes is also an option, but I tried too many times to save someone, just to see him turn into the horde at the wrong moment, next time you see that player in trouble ( normally within 5 minutes, in trouble again), you just want to whistle and fly by.
Some veterans you see every night, always give you same good instructions as your wingman.

Escort buffs = best perk-farming you can get, you also help buff pilots complete their mission, as you have wingman you can both sweep in front of buffs and protect them  from a high position.

[Randy1]

Last night we put all of this good advice to practice.  Unfortunately It was against Drano, Soulyss and Latrobe. We got beat but had a great time doing it.

No doubt, the two greatest barriers to wingman work is distance and communications.  Y'all are dead on with your advice.

Save,  I am afraid I am guilty of jumping right back into the fight.  You have saved my butt several times.

[Puma44]

Fighting with wingman requires 2 things, thrust and ability of your wingman/wingmen/plane type.
In LD flying together is what our squad is all about.
This can be frowned upon by some, but its fun, and it increase your chances of RTB.

I know hanging a con will get his butt kicked, and my bacon saved with a good wingman.
If you are flying deep down in the weeds, chased by those LA-7's the high squaddie with the right plane dives in to save the day for you, and also send that LA-7 where is belongs.

Some things I have noticed trying different tactics:

1-2k distance between wingmen  doesn't work in general, 2-4k is more of a norm in MA.

Use plane types  that work good together. close-in fighters like the zeke and a brick 190 makes it much harder to work good.

Use Teamspeak or in-game voice, give short exact instructions what you are doing and enemy plane/position and closure if you are chased, and wingman gives distance to target, closure, and if he wants to shorten path by you turning to either side.

Trying to help green planes is also an option, but I tried too many times to save someone, just to see him turn into the horde at the wrong moment, next time you see that player in trouble ( normally within 5 minutes, in trouble again), you just want to whistle and fly by.
Some veterans you see every night, always give you same good instructions as your wingman.

Escort buffs = best perk-farming you can get, you also help buff pilots complete their mission, as you have wingman you can both sweep in front of buffs and protect them  from a high position.

Very true that effective communication is key to success.  From experience, a 2-4 K spread simply takes time to get to the other guy when he gets tagged.  Typically, unless the attacker blows the first pass, the wingman gets shot before the other can fly the longer distance to engage.

With a wide spread like that and the pair not line abreast, it's fairly easy to sneak up from low deep six on the trailer and take care of business because most players don't belly check. 

[Mace2004]

One thing I would recommend is using the "Thatch" weave wing man tatic that the Navy used during WW2. The wing man would be about 2,000 feet above and behind the lead aircraft and would be making "S" turns, that way the wing man could see the "6" area quite well. Of course the lead aircraft can't be flying with full throttle, until engaged in combat, because with the wing man during "S" turns, the lead ship would eventually run off and leave the wing man.

Earl, you're misunderstanding the Thatch Weave. The wingman isn't behind the lead, he's abeam him.  Although originally intended as a defensive position, it eventually developed into what we now call Combat Spread which is considered both a defensive and offensive formation.  Separation between the friendly fighters is roughly equal to their turn diameter.  The abeam position allows both pilots to easily clear the other's six.

If an NME fighter is spotted behind the section but too far for the NME to attack a simple cross turn (each friendly fighter does a 180deg turn toward the other) will reverse the flight into the threat.  However, if the NME fighter is close to an attack position then he must chose which fighter to attack.  Again, both friendly fighters turn into each other but the goal isn't for both fighters to turn and face the threat.  Instead, the fighter being attacked is simply dragging the NME into a nose-to-nose confrontation with the other friendly fighter.  Once the two friendlies complete 90 degrees of turn they pass nose-to-nose and then reverse their turns to return to their original heading.  If the NME continues to attack then the friendlies just continue to weave giving one fighter opportunities for forward quarter shots (or as we say in AH, "HOs") on the NME.

[Puma44]

Earl, you're misunderstanding the Thatch Weave. The wingman isn't behind the lead, he's abeam him.  Although originally intended as a defensive position, it eventually developed into what we now call Combat Spread which is considered both a defensive and offensive formation.  Separation between the friendly fighters is roughly equal to their turn diameter.  The abeam position allows both pilots to easily clear the other's six.

If an NME fighter is spotted behind the section but too far for the NME to attack a simple cross turn (each friendly fighter does a 180deg turn toward the other) will reverse the flight into the threat.  However, if the NME fighter is close to an attack position then he must chose which fighter to attack.  Again, both friendly fighters turn into each other but the goal isn't for both fighters to turn and face the threat.  Instead, the fighter being attacked is simply dragging the NME into a nose-to-nose confrontation with the other friendly fighter.  Once the two friendlies complete 90 degrees of turn they pass nose-to-nose and then reverse their turns to return to their original heading.  If the NME continues to attack then the friendlies just continue to weave giving one fighter opportunities for forward quarter shots (or as we say in AH, "HOs") on the NME.

Ah, yes......TAC turns.  Rarely seen in game, but quite effective. 

[M1A1]

Communication is key, I have been flying as ZENSEN's wingman for 5 years. In that time I have learned just what he is gonna do and we communicate it very well. At first I couldn't even keep up with him now it is just a matter of him stating his intentions and I set myself up. We have on many occasions caused quite a mess and survived just as many as well. We are short and sweet on the comms with a few words here and there and nothing more.
 It took a long time to get to that and quite a few trips to the TA. If your squadron does not take advantage of the TA and the work you can do in it than maybe it should. Formation flying is the first step then after that is mastered than working as winged pairs becomes rather easy. Team up with a fellow oilot and learn what he does and when. The winged pair is built over time and is one founded on trust. Keep at it and it will come ....

[Traveler]

http://www.youtube.com/v/w5EQp9T_Dkg&hl=en_US&fs=1& My Wingman