Air Superiority Fighter of 60th-70th

[Shifty]

Ack-Ack.. What is the story on this North Korean Mig-21? How did it get to the Gulf of Suez?

[GScholz]

http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-north-korea-dogfight-yom-kippur-war-2013-6

Seems like the Egyptians shot down the Korean by mistake.

[artik]

Other than the North Korean MiG 21 shot down over the Gulf of Suez during the Yom Kippur War, did the Israelis shoot down other Commie Bloc jets during the war? 

ack-ack

1. The story about North Korean MiG-21 is very strange, it is mentioned in very few sources... Also some of them according to theaviationist are Israeli
2. Really interesting story is Israeli vs Soviet air force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20, it was a setup to show Soviets "who is in charge" and ended with 5 Soviet migs shut down and 1 Israeli Mirage damaged.

[Ack-Ack]

Ack-Ack.. What is the story on this North Korean Mig-21? How did it get to the Gulf of Suez?

During the Yom Kippur War, some Commie Bloc countries like Angola, Cuba and North Korea sent MiGs and pilots to aid Egypt.  The planes didn't carry their country marking though, as the IAF pilots that shot down the MiG thought it was Egyptian until told later it was North Korean.

ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-north-korea-dogfight-yom-kippur-war-2013-6

Seems like the Egyptians shot down the Korean by mistake.

Yeah, sad way to go.  According to the IAF pilots that tangled with the MiG, the MiG driver was pretty good.

ack-ack

[GScholz]

This thread makes me want to play Strike Fighters 2 Israel...

[artik]

Anybody notice that Chalmers "slick" Goodlin got a kill in a spitfire?

He was the first X1 pilot played by William Russ in "the right stuff".

Great pilot, great actor.

http://101squadron.com/101/people/goodlin.html

Many interesting pilots had flown for IAF in the beginning including WW2 aces: http://101squadron.com/101real/people.html

[artik]

This thread makes me want to play Strike Fighters 2 Israel...

BTW: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,356443.0.html

And yes.... I want to fly Mirage in AH level simulator badly...

[Shifty]

Interesting stuff thanks guys.

[FLS]

Navy F-4 always had guns. The USN had a different mindset than the USAF and still trained gunfighters in the 60's. The Migs in SEA avoided the USN Phantoms in favor of attacking the USAF until they also added guns. A joke at the time was " they're called missles not hittles."

The A-4 made a nice fighter for the IAF after they upgraded the engine.

[B3YT]

i thought Navy F4 never got the internal gun and only the USAF got the gun?

[Shifty]

i thought Navy F4 never got the internal gun and only the USAF got the gun?

You are correct. The first internal Vulcan cannon armed F4 Phantoms were F4Es of
the USAF. There were 39 Vulcan cannon air to air kills from 1966 to 1972 all were made by
USAF F-105s and USAF F-4s. Of the 10 cannon kills made by USAF F-4 Phantoms 6 were made by externally mounted
SUU-16 or SUU-23 externally mounted cannons. The other four kills achieved by cannon armed F4s were internally
mounted Vulcans in F4-E Phantoms. There were no USN F4 Phantom air to air kills achieved by cannon
all were by missiles. The USN F8 Crusaders are another story and achieved quite a few air to air kills with their cannons.

The Migs in SEA avoided the USN Phantoms in favor of attacking the USAF until they also added guns.

Don't know where you came by this information but it's wrong. Even if it was true. How would the Mig pilot know it was a USAF or
USN Phantom? If they avoided F4s it was because they were ordered to intercept the bomb carrying F-105s and A4s.

[Widewing]

i thought Navy F4 never got the internal gun and only the USAF got the gun?

U.S. Navy Phantoms did not have a gun. F-4B and F-4J... They had the option to install a centerline gun pod, but I never saw one used.

[Widewing]

The USN F8 Crusaders are another story and achieved quite a few air to air kills with their cannons.

I think that this has been very much over-hyped. Only a handful of F-8 kills were via guns. 4 or 5 IIRC.

[Shifty]

I think that this has been very much over-hyped. Only a handful of F-8 kills were via guns. 4 or 5 IIRC.

True, going by this source it was the early F-8 kills maybe three at the most, then they too started nailing Migs with Aim-9s.

http://myplace.frontier.com/~anneled/usvictor.html

It looks as if the Gun Fighter award goes to the F-105 guys who were probably concerned with getting in finding and hitting their target and getting the hell outta
Dodge more than fighting Migs.