Grumman Rules the Sky

[J.A.W.]

See Rule #4

[Widewing]

Yes, Ww, it is perfectly self-evident that the stunt-cat made those numbers..

Again, as I already posted.... One of the two pilots attempting the fastest climb stated:
"He confirmed that the only performance modification to the F8F’s was to bypass the safety lock on the emergency war power setting to allow water injection with the landing gear in the down position. These were standard F8F’s. His plane was armed, with ammo, armor in place, and loaded with 50% fuel. Butch Davenport’s F8F was configured the same only without the ammunition."

Davenport set the record.

Now, please stop insisting it was a stunt.

[Karnak]

I recall reading a study that found that people who knew nothing of a subject were pretty cognizant of the amount of knowledge they had on that subject, as were people who knew a moderate amount about it or were experts on it.  People who just knew a bit about it were, however, very prone to vastly overestimating how much they knew.

J.A.W.'s complete inability to understand air speed and the meaninglessness of a headwind in relation to aircraft performance leads me to suspect that he falls into the latter category when it comes to how flight actually works.  He seems very fixated on the airplane as an automobile level of understanding.

[Puma44]

Again too funny..

Are you guys for real.. 90in refers to..( good for a V-1650-9 WEP of 2,200+hp on ADI)

Forced induction from supercharging.. intake manifold air pressure.. boost..

..& in US recips was counted in inches/Hg..

- You ever had a blood pressure test on an ol' timey Hg ( mercury column) unit?

The Brits called it  boost in psi ( lb/square inch over atmo).
 
& to the LW - it was metric ata or ~ pressure in bar  above atmospheric..

Liquid cooled mills could generally handle more pressure longer, than aircooled,
(no mil-spec R-2800 was ever cleared for running @ 90in Hg..)

& that's why the slickest pony -`51H could deal to a salty ol' soggy bottom bearcrap..

That Napier Sabre 7  (as posted) was rated @ 3055hp military from ~take-off height
on a mere +17.25 lbs boost/ADI (ADI = MW-50 to the LW) ... 90in/Hg was closer to +30lbs..

& Baldy, kindly do us all a favour & check in for a cognitive capacity evaluation.. will ya..

Prove it.   And do it without the name calling and sarcasm.

[WWhiskey]

I recall reading a study that found that people who knew nothing of a subject were pretty cognizant of the amount of knowledge they had on that subject, as were people who knew a moderate amount about it or were experts on it.  People who just knew a bit about it were, however, very prone to vastly overestimating how much they knew.

J.A.W.'s complete inability to understand air speed and the meaninglessness of a headwind in relation to aircraft performance leads me to suspect that he falls into the latter category when it comes to how flight actually works.  He seems very fixated on the airplane as an automobile level of understanding.

as I hoped to show with the treadmill reference ,oh well,, easy enough to just ignore I guess .

[J.A.W.]

See Rule #4

[J.A.W.]

See Rule #4

[Karnak]

& a conveyer belt/treadmill will act like a catapult launch..
 - if the brakes are used to hold the plane to the surface `til airspeed is gained..

Treadmill is going the opposite direction.  If the plane's breaks are on it will go backwards.

Knak, - just because you don't understand something, that don't mean ITS stupid..

I understand it just fine.  Everybody else here understands it just fine, including the actual pilots here.

You don't understand it and think that flying into a head wind allows a steeper climb angle.

It does not.

[J.A.W.]

"Prove it"..

[Karnak]

"Prove it"..

You prove it.  You're the one making the nonsensical claim that nobody agrees with.

I, and others, already explained it.  An aircraft is moving within the air and, after the aircraft takes off, the air's speed over the ground is irrelevant to the aircraft's performance metrics, excepting ground speed.  In respect to the air the aircraft will be moving at the speed of its best climb rate if the aircraft is climbing at the aircraft's best rate.  If that speed is 180mph the aircraft will be moving forward at 180mph in relation to the air, the aircraft's speed in relation to the ground is 100% irrelevant.  It does not matter if the air is going 20mph over the ground in any direction unless the aircraft is maneuvering in relation to the ground, which in a pure climb test it is not.

If the aircraft steepens its climb and drops to an air speed of 160mph the aircraft will no longer be climbing and its best rate.

[J.A.W.]

See Rule #4

[Karnak]

J.A.W.,

You'll need to go to somebody else for the mathematics of it, but what I described is how it works.  You're very much too locked into using the ground as a reference.

As to the airplane on a treadmill, that is a question that made the rounds and fooled a lot of people who don't understand how airplanes work.  In the proposed question the treadmill run in the opposite direction that the aircraft is going.  So no, my understanding is not "nonsensical".

Try actually thinking about what I and others have said rather than ignoring it all in your utter confidence that we're all morons and you are all knowing.  Stop jumping to conclusions.

[WWhiskey]

Here is the original question for you


   
plane on a conveyor belt?
« on: January 19, 2007, 09:30:28 PM »
A plane is standing on a runway that can move like a giant conveyor belt. The plane applies full forward power and attempts to take off. This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's wheel speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same but in the opposite direction, similar to a treadmill.

The question is:

Will the plane take off or not?

[J.A.W.]

Didn't the 'Mythbusters' run through all these permutations with R-C models on treadmills?

From memory - they even tried a full-scale conveyer-belt/aircraft stunt too..

Wonder - if they'd allow a youtube clip of it to be posted here?

[BaldEagl]

Didn't the 'Mythbusters' run through all these permutations with R-C models on treadmills?

From memory - they even tried a full-scale conveyer-belt/aircraft stunt too..

Wonder - if they'd allow a youtube clip of it to be posted here?

So what you're saying then is that you don't know the answer.

Just make something up like you always do then stand by it.