Grumman Rules the Sky

[J.A.W.]

Ah yes, now where were we again?
Oh right, so to summarise then..

The premise of the thread topic is -as it relates to Grumman recip' fighters,  plainly false..

The USN dumped both F6F & F8F off its CVs - in favour of the late production F4U..

& the airshow climb 'record' has been revealed as a cute stunt, but a cheat in reality..


Like-wise, the R-2800, which was WEP rated for 2,500hp at take-off in the F8F was
out-powered by a thousand hp in take-off rating by the Napier Sabre.

Wonder how a Beatcat would go with a 3,500hp  Sabre hauling it?
Well, anyhow - it would sure look purtier, with a rhino-plasty & that's fo' sure.

The video of the P-51D being out-climbed by the F8F is like-wise a cheater stunt,
& the published official data shows the 51H was capable of dealing to the F8F in true mil-spec..

There it is..

[pembquist]

I thought this thread dead.
Which it should be
Inanely.
All it is
Is drivel.

[J.A.W.]

& Yet, somehow, P. - you feel oddly compelled.. - enough to add your opinion.. again.. FWIW..

[Brooke]

& the airshow climb 'record' has been revealed as a cute stunt, but a cheat in reality..

Incorrect.  It was proven (about three times over, in this thread and another) to be the opposite of what you say.

[J.A.W.]

Not so Brooke, lets review..

1, Was it an FAI sanctioned or recognised ' World Record'  - as claimed by Widey?

No, it was not..

2, Was it a dead-clean stone-cold stock mil-spec F8F ?

No it was not..

3, Would it have met the criteria for an FAI sanctioned record?

No it would not..

4, Did flying into a stiff cold headwind improve performance?

Yes, of course it did..

These are the established facts..

[bozon]

4, Did flying into a stiff cold headwind improve performance?

Yes, of course it did..

These are the established facts..

I dont know about the other points, but #4 is still as incorrect as it ever was.

[J.A.W.]

So, if it was flying off the deck of a CV sternwards, while the CV was steaming V-max ahead in tropical heat..

Or if it was fully loaded & flying from a 10,000ft elevation strip in zero wind at 45`C in high summer..

It would make the same time-to-climb as it did for that stunt?

Yeah, right..

[Golfer]

Ooh you're the guy who is butthurt for no seemingly good reason that your beloved P51H isn't as good an airplane as the Bearcat.

Cool. How out we just say you're special and skip the ceremony and agree when in your online presence the so decreed slicker than greased snot H-Mustang trumps all comers and stunt technicality using aeroplanes?

Simplify things?

[J.A.W.]

Geeze G,

- Didn't you even read post # 199?

So, again  I 'll put it to you, - yeah, sure, the little Limey powered pony `51H was the best performing US recip,

 - but that don't mean it was the all-time best, period..

[Brooke]

Not so Brooke, lets review..

Yes, let's review:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,356037.msg4722462.html#msg4722462

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,356037.msg4722504.html#msg4722504

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,356037.msg4722545.html#msg4722545

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,356969.msg4733811.html#msg4733811

Those are just four relevant links from among many more than four repeating what has been gone over again and again.  It doesn't matter how many times you repeat something misstated or misleading, it will remain misstated or misleading.

[J.A.W.]

The same applies to what you put up too, Brooke..

Fact.. the maths you did shows a significant theoretical time advantage to roll out into a headwind..

Fact, W.W., did an A-H Yak test simulation showed a similar time gain..

Fact, the WEP was admitted to be rigged..

Fact, the 'record' was never put to the FAI for certification, & nor would it have been ratified if they had..

Fact, it was a neatly orchestrated stunt - no contest - & no contest as any kind of 'official record' either..

However, big picture-wise,
 
(& even if the 'record' - had been more kosher than a very observant orthodox Rabbi),

- the thread premise is still busted..

[Karnak]

So, if it was flying off the deck of a CV sternwards, while the CV was steaming V-max ahead in tropical heat..

Or if it was fully loaded & flying from a 10,000ft elevation strip in zero wind at 45`C in high summer..

It would make the same time-to-climb as it did for that stunt?

Yeah, right..

Tempature and altitude changes would, of course, make a difference.  A headwind, no difference at all once airborne, and given how rapidly the F8F gets airborne it wouldn't change things by more than 5 seconds in total, if that.

[J.A.W.]

Knak, WW did 'fly' it, in a Yak & found a significant difference ( where's that p-factor then - Brooke)..

Obviously, compared to a hot/summer day - a cold wind chill is going to provide both superior lift & power output..

& 5 seconds is a lot, ~5% in fact..

[BaldEagl]

Oh goodie, you're back.  You STILL haven't answered the question.  Here it is for about the fourth time.  You have a 50/50 chance of getting it right with a guess:

Here is the original question for you


   
plane on a conveyor belt?
« on: January 19, 2007, 09:30:28 PM »
A plane is standing on a runway that can move like a giant conveyor belt. The plane applies full forward power and attempts to take off. This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's wheel speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same but in the opposite direction, similar to a treadmill.

The question is:

Will the plane take off or not?

[J.A.W.]

Funny Baldy, but the Mythbuster ep  - where they did just that check, both with scale & full size aircraft,
was replayed on TV the other night, - don't say you aint seen it..

& if I cared, I 'd put up the youtube vid of it for you.. ..Its a doozy..


( & the answer is, it depends..  .. i.e. - if the plane has its brakes on, or not..)