Author Topic: Lack of fights.  (Read 5759 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #90 on: December 21, 2013, 05:43:07 AM »
The DA is usually empty, like it is right now.

The DA suffers as the MA does in off-peak times.

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Offline asterix

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #91 on: December 21, 2013, 05:58:52 AM »
Sorry but the lack of "real fights" is really bothering me. I log on see two big dars, one green and one red only to get in a furball and get shot down. Then I'm welcomed to a "fh down" this annoys me more than anything in the entire game.

Why do people want to kill the fight?  Is that what this game is about? To fight to the death and re-up to seek revenge!?
People who kill the hangars are actually good players- they protect you from being vulched. ;)
What stops you from taking off from another field nearby? Seems like a pseudo problem for me. Finding a fight in the game is not a problem for me 99% of the time, my definition of a fight could be different though. There are usually over 120 players when I log, maybe that is why. Isn`t dueling arena for "real" 1v1 fights?
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Offline SirNuke

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #92 on: December 21, 2013, 06:11:34 AM »
People who kill the hangars are actually good players

 :rofl

Offline Volron

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #93 on: December 21, 2013, 06:38:31 AM »
I...guess it's a change from the horde thread? :headscratch:
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #94 on: December 21, 2013, 06:55:52 AM »
The DA suffers as the MA does in off-peak times.


I know, I was responding to this.

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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #95 on: December 21, 2013, 07:11:05 AM »
Again, you either can't understand what I type, or you just don't read it. Diving into a horde of red guys isn't fighting, it's picking and it takes very little skill. While racking up a bunch of kills "looks" cool, fighting for those kills it what gets the adrenalin flowing. Even out numbered 2 to 1, or 3 to 1 fighting back an attack is exciting and fun. Trying to fight back an attack when it's 5 to1 and you really don't have a chnace isn't fun. It get tiring and frustrating.

Like INK said, THIS IS NOT WAR, it's a GAME and so should be fun for everyone who is PAYING to play it. I don't mind FIGHTING for a base, or just fighting for air superiority, but diving in and picking some heavy lemming that can't get out of his own way isn't fighting.

You obviously do not dive into hordes that much. You may get to pick a couple. But it is only a matter of time before someone with just as much alt or e advantage comes along and drives you from that perch. And you may call it picking. but it is one of the most effective ways to counter the horde when you dont have a horde of your own to counter with. For all the flak I get for doing it. People dont seem to realise what it is Im doing. I'm holding you up. Delaying you. If I can get 4,6,8 players to follow me around like some sort of Benny hill skit. That is that many less that are hording my guys.
that gives my side enough time to either gather enough players to counter. or recover and get some more alt and E to be able to fight back

And I dont care how good you are. You arent going to be able to have an effective fight when being vulched or gangbanged by a full darbar  of people
Being swarmed or vulched by 6,8,10 players at a time isnt always that much fun either.

And what you are describing is little different then what we see commonly today  on larger scales. Entire large groups hanging out high waiting for a friendly to act as bait then dragging everyone under a high cap where they get swooped on and picked. Personally. I'd much rather pick at the horde then be picked by them.

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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #96 on: December 21, 2013, 07:59:38 AM »
People who kill the hangars are actually good players- they protect you from being vulched. ;)
What stops you from taking off from another field nearby? Seems like a pseudo problem for me. Finding a fight in the game is not a problem for me 99% of the time, my definition of a fight could be different though. There are usually over 120 players when I log, maybe that is why. Isn`t dueling arena for "real" 1v1 fights?

The problem with those that kill the hangars is they typically come in two flavors.

You have the ones that come in and kill a fight where nobody has any real interest in a base capture.

Or.

they avoid any base that shows even one or two planes are upping from and they kill the hangars where nobody is defending at all thus disallowing any fight even if people were so inclined.


Lemme tall ya. There is no great skill in gathering a darbar full of players and killing the field and capturing an undefended base. No great showing of leadership. and certainly no showing of being a master at strategy regardless of those who chest thump to the contrary
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Offline asterix

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #97 on: December 21, 2013, 08:07:18 AM »
also Traveler I am real interested in seeing exactly what you are talking about.... can you post a link to the exact "getting started/help page" that you speak of?
Maybe he was referring to this page: http://www.hitechcreations.com/aircraft-preflight/aces-high-objectives
Traveler has a point in describing the newcomer`s attitude towards the game imho. Among the new players on country channel many post enthusiastic text messages offering help in base capture. When told to up a fighter and just kill the red guys some say no, they want to help in base capture. At least one player changed to bishop as soon as he realised that knights did not feel like making any missions. Bishops had their gang together and were rolling bases at the same time.

People who kill the hangars are actually good players- they protect you from being vulched. ;)
This was meant as a joke.
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Offline McShark

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #98 on: December 21, 2013, 08:44:24 AM »
doesn't fighting against a horde gives you more red cons to kill?  by that I mean you dont have to up from a capped field but if you up from a field 1 or two sectors behind you will always find a con anywhere from 20k to the deck willing to die for your?  I dont think I am the only one that decides upping a sector or 2 away.

you seem to be stuck in the mentally that it was "honorable" to fight 1v1 in ww1 and ww2 when that acutely rarely happened.   all kills where picks and vulches, 1v1 was the exception and not the norm.

may I point to the first rule of Dicta_Boelcke.

"Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible keep the sun behind you."

it doesnt indicate that you will have a "quality fight" but more along the lines "I will pick you as often as I can".

second rule is:

"Height - From the advantage of flying above his opponent, a pilot had more control over how and where the fight takes place. He could dive upon his opponent, gaining a sizable speed advantage for a hit and run attack. Or, if the enemy had too many advantages, numbers for instance, a pilot fly away with a good head start. On average, WWI aircraft climbed slowly. Altitude was a hard earned 'potential energy' store not to be given away capriciously."

but if you insist in this "quality fights" thing, please point out to the ww1 or ww2 "rules" of fighter combat.  I am pretty sure you will have plenty of pilots who wanted "quality fights".


semp

I would love to fly Dicta Boelcke in here.
The issue with that is that a 6.0 k icon combined with an AWACS style radar in my clipboard kills any chance to exploit these advantages.
All of us, one way or another, indulge in WWII style of combat but we have options on our hands they did not have in those days. This is the combination that enables hordes to spot the dead side of the map, warns possible interceptors of the size of the horde, denies true surprises due AWACS in the lap.

The game is fine as it is IMHO, BUT, it is out of tune.

Reduce radar capabilities, icon range and even icon text size ( It's bigger than the actual plane if you want!!! )
Deny tuning down graphics to an minimum level to exploit big blob pixels.
Bring clouds, wind and weather. Contrails on high bombers! Gunners that take 10 seconds at least to change position.

If Aces High wants to be a Combat Simulation stop throwing in too much second millennium gimmicks ( and leaving away the simple but truly helpful ones) and the thing will settle itself. There still will be hordes capturing bases, rolling maps, but you also will have the single fighter engaging 7 escorts on his own taking 2 bombers and an escort down and get away with it. Now that would be a blast.

All most of us look for is WWII combat in it's essence and at the end of the day we all don't like to be shot down.
Just bring the level of technology back to where it was those days.
65 radar limit? 12 miles dot radar range? 6000 yards icons? No clouds? No wind? The world would speak GERMAN if that bloke with the ugly beard had all of that. We do appreciate a little help here  and there as we don't have the time to spend days and weeks in game but the way it is now is overkill with a dying game in result.

At the end of the day we self decide which terms of engagement we accept. Here Dicta Boelcke is the basics of all aircombat and if you fail to live by it you will be shot down. Most of the rules got tweaked away tho.

Just my 2 cents, carry on.

Edit:

Simulating only the flght model is not enough. The WWII environment needs a lot of attention, too.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 09:07:54 AM by McShark »
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Offline RotBaron

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #99 on: December 21, 2013, 08:51:15 AM »
same reason why joachim didnt get suspended for two weeks for his political thread.  it was even the same day.


semp

And what reason is that?
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline kvuo75

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #100 on: December 21, 2013, 08:57:44 AM »
but you also will have the single fighter engaging 7 escorts on his own taking 2 bombers and an escort down and get away with it. Now that would be a blast.


we already have that.

you need to be good.


kvuo75

Kill the manned ack.

Offline McShark

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #101 on: December 21, 2013, 09:12:18 AM »
we already have that.

you need to be good.




We do, but most of the times these kind of engagements end up in a post over being gang banged or being horded on the BBS.

Also, I refrain to an earlier post in Lusche's Megathread, it's only about 5 % of the pilots which count for roughly 95 % of the kills. Average Joe in here might have a hard time to accept that.
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Offline gpwurzel

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #102 on: December 21, 2013, 09:21:11 AM »
Why is it that every time this type of thread comes up, everyone seems to assume that the "fight" is about having a 1 v 1? Pretty much if your looking for 1 v 1's in the MA, either your sa is toast, or you've set one up with someone, and its going to be interrupted by somone coming to help one or the other. The fight (purely my opinion) can be equal/unequal numbers duking it out.

For the win the war types (sorry, not trying to sound disparaging - its early and not enough coffee) - why take 30/40 people to a single base? Would it not make more sense to attack 3 or 4 bases at the same time - bear with me before flaming please - trying to take 3 or 4 bases at the same time does a couple of things - it gives those who choose to defend more chance at having fun, at the same time as making the defenders have to work to determine which is a full on attack, which is a feint etc. This would probably help resolve the obvious issue being argued about - we all pay to have fun - fun being determined by each individual player. Wanna fly to take bases - awesome - bring us a fight. Wanna fly to dogfight - awesome, bring us a fight.

I dont fly at all at the moment (making it real nice and clear) - work, band and trying to find a house now my father in law has passed and his place being waaay underwater preclude that - but I will be back, providing easy kills in the MA at some stage (hopefully sooner rather than later)

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It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #103 on: December 21, 2013, 09:31:29 AM »
so you are going against the number 1 rule of dicta boelcke

1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you

this is not war, but then again are you so naive to expect every fight to be an equal plane/skill/energy  fight?


semp



It also says not to attack unless you have all the advantages. Wouldn't that be a fun game..... everyone flying around in big circles trying to get above the other guy while still keeping the sun to his back.  :rolleyes: Grow up, this is a GAME real life rules don't apply.

I've always thought each map should have a little 3-airbase area, one base for each country, off out of the way in the corner of the map or some such. Nothing capturable, no VH, no radar, nothing can be destroyed. Just a place for folks to find a furball.

...rest of the map can be as it is so folks can do the strat thing and run vehicles. Everyone wins.

This issue while on the surface looks like a good idea, but the other hand it brings to mind WWI arena. Furballing is along the lines of picking a horde. While it may be fun for a bit it soon gets boring as there really isn't much in the way of a challenge. You blow in and out as many times as you can getting as many kills as you can until some one shows up with more E and slips past your SA and picks you. Rinse and repeat.

I'm more after all around better game play. I like the "war" aspect of the game but as it sits now the only way to defend is to spend the night flying around porking ord, or trying to fight 5 to 1 odds. I'd rather see 20-30 guys fighting over a base, while a sector or two away another 20-30 guys are fighting over another base, while on the other front the same thing is happening. Thats 180 guys in the arena with each team having the option of 4 different fights to join. More people, more fights. Doesn't that sound like more fun from both the attack AND defend point of view?

The problem a lot of people have is their fun depends on a cooperative opponent.

They're flying along and see an enemy plane.  What they want is for that plane (and only that plane) to engage them in some kind of committed fight.  If their enemy keeps his E and never engages them so they can fight back, or retreats to friendlies or ack when he loses the advantage, that's "ruining their fun" because he didn't give them the engagement they want.

I just go looking for enemies to kill.  If they want to run to their ack or friendlies that's fine.  It's up to me to catch them and not get killed in the process if I can.

Wiley.

The only cooperation I need from other players is that they ENGAGE! bailing and running to ack is getting old.

People who kill the hangars are actually good players- they protect you from being vulched. ;)
What stops you from taking off from another field nearby? Seems like a pseudo problem for me. Finding a fight in the game is not a problem for me 99% of the time, my definition of a fight could be different though. There are usually over 120 players when I log, maybe that is why. Isn`t dueling arena for "real" 1v1 fights?


Taking off from a near by field doesn't often work. First flight is to intercept and kill a few before the gang gets you, you up your second flight from a near by field and by the time you get back they have captured the base, landed.... those few that survive, and disappear to pop-up some place else.

You obviously do not dive into hordes that much. You may get to pick a couple. But it is only a matter of time before someone with just as much alt or e advantage comes along and drives you from that perch. And you may call it picking. but it is one of the most effective ways to counter the horde when you dont have a horde of your own to counter with. For all the flak I get for doing it. People dont seem to realise what it is Im doing. I'm holding you up. Delaying you. If I can get 4,6,8 players to follow me around like some sort of Benny hill skit. That is that many less that are hording my guys.
that gives my side enough time to either gather enough players to counter. or recover and get some more alt and E to be able to fight back

And I dont care how good you are. You arent going to be able to have an effective fight when being vulched or gangbanged by a full darbar  of people
Being swarmed or vulched by 6,8,10 players at a time isnt always that much fun either.

And what you are describing is little different then what we see commonly today  on larger scales. Entire large groups hanging out high waiting for a friendly to act as bait then dragging everyone under a high cap where they get swooped on and picked. Personally. I'd much rather pick at the horde then be picked by them.



I agree, but for those of us who are much less skilled than you are we don't last so long to be that effective a delaying mechanism. Also draggin a bunch of lemmings while helpful really isn't fighting.

Why is it that every time this type of thread comes up, everyone seems to assume that the "fight" is about having a 1 v 1? Pretty much if your looking for 1 v 1's in the MA, either your sa is toast, or you've set one up with someone, and its going to be interrupted by somone coming to help one or the other. The fight (purely my opinion) can be equal/unequal numbers duking it out.

For the win the war types (sorry, not trying to sound disparaging - its early and not enough coffee) - why take 30/40 people to a single base? Would it not make more sense to attack 3 or 4 bases at the same time - bear with me before flaming please - trying to take 3 or 4 bases at the same time does a couple of things - it gives those who choose to defend more chance at having fun, at the same time as making the defenders have to work to determine which is a full on attack, which is a feint etc. This would probably help resolve the obvious issue being argued about - we all pay to have fun - fun being determined by each individual player. Wanna fly to take bases - awesome - bring us a fight. Wanna fly to dogfight - awesome, bring us a fight.

I dont fly at all at the moment (making it real nice and clear) - work, band and trying to find a house now my father in law has passed and his place being waaay underwater preclude that - but I will be back, providing easy kills in the MA at some stage (hopefully sooner rather than later)

Wurz

Agreed 100%  :aok

Offline McShark

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Re: Lack of fights.
« Reply #104 on: December 21, 2013, 09:55:21 AM »
Why is it that every time this type of thread comes up, everyone seems to assume that the "fight" is about having a 1 v 1? Pretty much if your looking for 1 v 1's in the MA, either your sa is toast, or you've set one up with someone, and its going to be interrupted by somone coming to help one or the other. The fight (purely my opinion) can be equal/unequal numbers duking it out.

For the win the war types (sorry, not trying to sound disparaging - its early and not enough coffee) - why take 30/40 people to a single base? Would it not make more sense to attack 3 or 4 bases at the same time - bear with me before flaming please - trying to take 3 or 4 bases at the same time does a couple of things - it gives those who choose to defend more chance at having fun, at the same time as making the defenders have to work to determine which is a full on attack, which is a feint etc. This would probably help resolve the obvious issue being argued about - we all pay to have fun - fun being determined by each individual player. Wanna fly to take bases - awesome - bring us a fight. Wanna fly to dogfight - awesome, bring us a fight.

I dont fly at all at the moment (making it real nice and clear) - work, band and trying to find a house now my father in law has passed and his place being waaay underwater preclude that - but I will be back, providing easy kills in the MA at some stage (hopefully sooner rather than later)

Wurz


I love a 1 v 1.Most of the times go to DA,you can have one in MA off hours as well. MA 1 v 1 are so tempting as you usually have no clue who it is. am I able to outfly / outsmart him? Having a 1 v 1 aside of a furball, scissors off tree tops,push your knowledge and capabilities to the limit just puts a smile on my face. I don't even bother if I win or lose. I accept 2 or 3 on ones but 6 - 7 - 8 on 1? That's the usual result as hordes show up, not fun.

Your idea goes the right direction regarding a horde vs 3 /4 bases but unlimited numbers of planes and ords will make this a no go. Dicta Boelcke also states if you have no other advantages, use numbers......
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