Black Fish.

[danny76]

Just watched it.

These are wild animals evolved to kill. Is it a shock? Then throw in these animals being in stressful situations, essentially solitary confinement, etc. I'm the exact opposite of a tree hugger, I'm not taking a PETA approach.

Good info and clearly this show engages from the bias of Sea World is at fault.

On another subject, do we still see lion tamers sticking their heads in the mouths of lions? Or, after enough attacks in cages have they stopped that? Just wondering.

Boo

Fixed that for you

[Rich46yo]

Half of my family are hunters, trappers, etc. They have been around individuals killed by wolves (just a few times), killed and eaten by brown and polar bears, and when it comes to killer whales I've heard of them attacking and sinking small boats. I didn't read of the people being killed but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Clearly, those that lost the boat but weren't killed, lived to tell the tale. Those who were killed by the whales....didn't. I know, I've create an impossible situation though I would not be surprised at all to learn that it has happened.

boo

Well I heard people could be killed by Martians. Obviously those killed by Martians arent alive to verify it but it IS possible.

One boat I know of was rammed by an Orca. One! I think "most people" would say after thousands of boat/orca encounters the fact that only one was rammed would point to one confused orca. They do get screwed up by sonar in the water. As a general rule they dont mess with humans tho only a moron would jump in the water with one.

Tho none of this, wolves, boats, Martians, have anything to do with keeping Orcas in a bath tub for amusement and profit. The animals are simply to big for anyone to provide a stimulating environment for them to live in so they should all be let loose to take their chances in the wild.

I remember being down in Mexico when my wife was pregnant with my son. She wanted to swim with the dolphins but I wouldnt let her. I told her if she wanted to take her chances with a 600 lb fish with teeth then to do so AFTER  my kid is out of her belly. As it turns out I was right. Years later it started leaking out how these dolphins at these tourist traps often attacked the stupid tourists who jumped in with them holding fish in their hand. I noticed how none of the Mexicans were jumping in and seemed to find it amusing the pale skins were.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/338398
http://dominicanwatchdog.org/page-Woman_attacked_by_dolphin_at_Manati_Park_in_Bavaro,_Dominican_Republic
http://luna.pos.to/whale/gen_art_killer.html

[NatCigg]

did you see the size of that orca brain they put on the table?  I would guess some intelligence would come of that.  They talked how the social aspect of the brain was enlarged compared to humans.

I guess the guy was long term depressed and was a little volatile, especially after he learned how he could control his authority.

[Megalodon]

A lot of cattle live in a confinement setting.

Cattle are a food source ........you have seen how they raise chickens...

 The elephant in the room!

[mthrockmor]

Rich, really odd, meandering answer. And your point is....you've only heard of one attack by an Orca (which is apparently dispositive) while you've heard of plenty of dolphin attacks (which is also dispositive.)

It is impossible to prove a negative, in this case an unknown or unreported. I believe I was pretty clear in stating "I would not be surprised at all to learn..."

boo

[jimson]

Never say never.


On September 9, 1972, a Californian surfer named Hans Kretschmer reported being bitten by a killer whale at Point Sur; most maintain that this remains the only fairly well-documented instance of a wild orca biting a human. His wounds required 100 stitches.

[Rich46yo]

Rich, really odd, meandering answer. And your point is....you've only heard of one attack by an Orca (which is apparently dispositive) while you've heard of plenty of dolphin attacks (which is also dispositive.)

It is impossible to prove a negative, in this case an unknown or unreported. I believe I was pretty clear in stating "I would not be surprised at all to learn..."

boo

Point is there have been none for Orcas in the wild. Deaths I mean. They are far less likely to kill a Human then, say, a jelly fish. For predators of that size that would point to a very high intelligence. My point was Orcas, like dolphins, like the great apes, are different kind of animals then others. They are far more intelligent, the kind of intelligence that should question the ethics of keeping them in small enclosures just for money.

But they are still wild animals. Predators! Sea Worlds assertion its safe to swim with them is just insane. There have been far more attacks by orcas in captivity then one. Do we really need experts to tell us caging them like that, tearing up their family groups like that?, is driving them nuts? Of course it is.

The thing about "experts" is all it takes is money to buy one. The anti's have their experts, Sea World has its experts, and that just leaves us with our common sense. Mine tells me the movie is right.

[dentin]

The thing about "experts" is all it takes is money to buy one. The anti's have their experts, Sea World has its experts, and that just leaves us with our common sense. Mine tells me the movie is right.

Expert.. n. A person with more data than judgment.   

[Shuffler]

Still waiting shuffler for the "other side" of the argument.

Killer whales are not threatened, have never been hunted by man "except for display", there is no ecological reason to store them in animal parks. Like in zoos who have breeding programs for endangered animals as a hedge against extinction and to keep their genealogy strong. There is a stable population of over 50,000 orcas in the wild so why else would they capture them and keep them in bath tubs? Then break up what family they have to send them to other parks in order to sell even more Shamu stuffed animals? Did you even see that mother when they took her baby because the baby was causing problems with the circus act?

Hell, at least most zoos make an attempt to give their animals a habitat and stable life. At Sea World "The show must go on" so they throw these highly intelligent animals together, some of whom get injured and killed by other orcas because they dont have stable family units. So they are not only kept in bath tubs but also conditions that are brutal to them and totally foreign to their species.

Its really a disgusting story. Now this is a article I found that disputes in the film and its thesis http://melissaasmith.hubpages.com/hub/blackfish-film . In it, if you read it closely enough, the writer doesnt make one single point that makes any sense, or has any bearing. All he seems to say is "the producers are stupid animal lovers" and he continues to blather on with stuff like how we dont know if orcas will attack humans in the wild cause we havnt swam with them enough in the open ocean. WTF is he talking about?

Sure the film was made by the bambi crowd, who else is going to give a damn about these animals? At least enough to make the film. Heres the thing tho, Im a hunter/conversationalist, a guy who believes whales should be hunted as long as their populations are stable and strong, and I still agree with the Bambi crowd on this. I think it would be better to kill the orcas then keep them like this. And better still just let them live free and leave them alone. Cruelty to animals is mean spirited. Cruelty and greed is even worse. I piss on Sea World.

I said educate yourself. Try it..........

[Rich46yo]

I said educate yourself. Try it..........

Boy thats pathetic.

Were it I I'd just admit I made a mistake and the position of Sea World is immoral.

[mthrockmor]

Expert.. n. A person with more data than judgment.   

Now I'm off in the weeds. What is an expert? Right now there are very solid theories of travel at speeds greater than light; alternative universes, to include a plausable theory that what we see and call space is in fact a hologram. If so, who is the man behind the curtain operating that machine?! Heck, I've even read of new theories, formulas and technology that challenges gravity, which should be the most solid truth in science.

I've heard that from the time a doctor graduates from university to the time they retire 40% of what they have been trained on and practice will prove to be inaccurate.

Experts are those that possess a great deal of knowledge that is likely mostly up to date. With Killer Whales, we know what we know until new information comes along. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to learn they have in fact sunk small boats, killed people, etc. I have no evidence of it, just speculating.

All of this aside, I liked the movie. I know it is biased and there is always the other side of the story. Good information to process and debate to have.

boo

PS Off my soap box now...

[Traveler]

BlackFish did a good job of making Seaworld look bad, and I asked myself "is this the typical CNN chop piece, and is the truth someplace in the middle?" while watching it a couple months ago when it first aired.  Now, rewatching it on Netflix, I still can't answer that, as like Rich pointed out, SeaWorld STILL hasn't responded to the allegations made in the documentary. 

Where do we as humans draw the line?  A: Animals are either here for us to use, or they aren't.  B: Some animals have more "sentience" than others, or more "intelligence", and should be in a separate category, and treated accordinly  C: Animals are all our equals, and we should just leave ALL of them alone.

If the case can be made that keeping Orca's in captivity is wrong, shouldn't the same be said for all the millions of horses kept in captivity?  They are subject to the same breeding techniques as the whales, the same captivity in corrals, the same veterinarian procedures, the are separated from their young for breeding purposes, they are sometimes eaten, or sold to the glue factory, they are used in entertainment shows like rodeos, horses races, and hundreds of other things......

Don't get stupid, you need the horses or your dogs wouldn't have anything to eat.

[Shuffler]

Boy thats pathetic.

Were it I I'd just admit I made a mistake and the position of Sea World is immoral.

I took the time and I support SeaWorld. I'll be going next summer just because of folks like you who are too lazy to actually educate yourself. You are dependent on whoever feels like spoon feeding you whatever they want you to believe.

Anyone who eats meat, has pets, or animals of any kind are no better than SeaWorld. At least SeaWorld provides some education about the creatures you see...... Just as a zoo does.

Have you ever eaten veal? Do you know how it is made?

[Traveler]

I took the time and I support SeaWorld. I'll be going next summer just because of folks like you who are too lazy to actually educate yourself. You are dependent on whoever feels like spoon feeding you whatever they want you to believe.

Anyone who eats meat, has pets, or animals of any kind are no better than SeaWorld. At least SeaWorld provides some education about the creatures you see...... Just as a zoo does.

Have you ever eaten veal? Do you know how it is made?

What is there to educate about SeaWorld.  It's a corporation, it needs to make a profit to support it's Board and Stockholders.   Stupid humans go look at wild animals held captive , because we are higher on the food chain and we have thumbs.   Doesn't make it right.  SeaWorld adds what to the world? Besides a lot of entry level jobs for high school kids, and lets not forget the animal trainers , I mean where would they get jobs without SeaWorld. 

[Rich46yo]

I took the time and I support SeaWorld. I'll be going next summer just because of folks like you who are too lazy to actually educate yourself. You are dependent on whoever feels like spoon feeding you whatever they want you to believe.

You still havnt said wtf you educated yourself about you babbling nincompoop.

Anyone who eats meat, has pets, or animals of any kind are no better than SeaWorld. At least SeaWorld provides some education about the creatures you see...... Just as a zoo does.

I went once and they didnt provide ANY information about them. They just took animals NOT endangered in the wild and put on a circus act with them for money. With the added excitement you might see one of their trainers dragged down and drowned. I guess thats part of the act.

One can eat whale, or seal, or dolphin, and still not want to see the critter kept in a bath tub until it goes nuts, "all for profit BTW". Not that anyone eats those critters except for eskimos but I'd bet they dont want them kept in bath tubs either.

Have you ever eaten veal? Do you know how it is made?

No were all stupid so please tell us. A cow is a animal raised for food and not a very bright one either, unlike animals like Orcas which are self aware and have high intelligence and even talk to each other. In contrast a cow is pretty stupid. But nobody here is even talking about animals used for food right? Or should we "educate" ourselves over that too?