Author Topic: p-51  (Read 781 times)

Offline 1stpar3

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p-51
« on: January 09, 2014, 04:04:18 PM »
would love to see the gyroscopic gun sight for the 51 especially in late war arena.
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline Karnak

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Re: p-51
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 04:52:10 PM »
would love to see the gyroscopic gun sight for the 51 especially in late war arena.
And not all the other fighters that had it?

That said, due to how extreme our maneuvering is in AH it wouldn't work very well.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: p-51
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 06:19:22 PM »
And not all the other fighters that had it?

That said, due to how extreme our maneuvering is in AH it wouldn't work very well.

They have it in IL2, pretty pointless if you know how to shoot well.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline bustr

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Re: p-51
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 07:19:38 PM »
It's only functional at best to a 30 degree low E turn with a low angle of climb or dive. Rapid ACM aerobatics like we perform in this game were warned against using the Mark21(K14). The gyro mechanism would lock up or be damaged. Fear not, they had a fix for that. And that's why the Mark21(K14) has two projection lenses.

The left hand lens projects a fixed ring and cross or fixed rocket aid and cross. If the gyro mechanism was locked or damaged, you flipped on the fixed reticle and performed manual lead shooting. Being the ring was only 70Mil, pilots had problems judging lead. Goes back to why ETO AAF pilots threw away their N-3 gunsights and were using the British MkII gunsight with 105Mil ring during the early ETO. Eventually it became standard practice at the receiving depots to throw away the N-3 and retrofit a British MkII.

In ww2 the vast majority of fighter to fighter kills were low E turning shots or 6 shots which allowed the pilot to hold the moving 6-star reticle on the target for the prerequisite 1 solid second framed by it before opening fire. In our game 1 solid second is all you get before we flip and flop around to spoil your aim. And don't forget our collision modeling problems. During that 1 solid second, who you have framed in the 6-star may not be who you need to shoot.

In Korea during the early days of jet to jet fighting with late model K14C. The K14C and early A-1 radar ranging gunsights didn't have an E loading limiter. Very quickly in jet to jet turning fights the movable reticle would be locked off the side of the reflector plate. The same happened to some small degree in WW2 with prop fighters.

In Aces High you really have two choices.

1. Go to the DA and learn ACM so you out fly most in the MA and shoot them inside of 200 using only a dot O death.
2. Learn to use a 100Mil, 101Mil, or 105Mil reticle for lead shooting. Don't know your ride so I'm covering the bases. Morfiend in the TA is very good at teaching you lead shooting.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: p-51
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 07:58:10 PM »
They have it in IL2, pretty pointless if you know how to shoot well.


wow that is a gunsight?  I always thought they russians had put chicken wire just because it was better than nothing.


semp
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: p-51
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 08:00:00 PM »
would love to see the gyroscopic gun sight for the 51 especially in late war arena.

I just remember how one guy commented on range that he had used a felt tip pen to put dots to extend the sight range beyond what the game allowed.  he said it really help him in high deflection shots.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: p-51
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 08:11:15 PM »
Air Warrior had a badly modeled gyroscopic K14 gun sight for all planes.  Honestly, was shocked how many people were such crappy shots when AW virtually held your hand when aiming and shooting.

ack-ack
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Offline BnZs

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Re: p-51
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 08:49:20 PM »
wow that is a gunsight?  I always thought they russians had put chicken wire just because it was better than nothing.


semp

Il2 the series of games dude. But I feel it doesn't help much if you know basic aerial gunnery
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: p-51
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 01:58:34 AM »
wow, was not expecting such a history lesson! I did not know that. Had used them in a few video games and worked ok. Ofcoarse I didn't know then what I do now. So disregard my wish!! Where can I find info for those mil sights? I know the math as I am long distance shooting enthusiast. Thanks again guys
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline Greebo

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Re: p-51
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 04:18:13 AM »
No one expects the AH BBS inquisition.....

Typing "aircraft gun sight" into Google produced a few useful hits.

Offline Drane

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Re: p-51
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 04:27:59 AM »
No one expects the AH BBS inquisition.....

Typing "aircraft gun sight" into Google produced a few useful hits.

Oh No!!! not the AH BBS inquisition....what will they do with Grandmum???
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Offline hotcoffe

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Re: p-51
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2014, 08:47:11 AM »
use the padlock does the same job
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Offline Karnak

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Re: p-51
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2014, 02:49:58 PM »
use the padlock does the same job
I am not sure you read any of the posts.
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Offline bustr

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Re: p-51
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2014, 09:50:27 PM »
wow, was not expecting such a history lesson! I did not know that. Had used them in a few video games and worked ok. Ofcoarse I didn't know then what I do now. So disregard my wish!! Where can I find info for those mil sights? I know the math as I am long distance shooting enthusiast. Thanks again guys

They are in my Historic Pack which I'm updating again due to finding an early PAK1 reticle for our I16, and I'm thinking about including a Dots and "Blue Thingy" extras folders.

The problem with historical gunsights in this game, is you have to know why the structures exist in them and how they were expected to be used. Then practice with them until you develop an unconscious sight picture and ability to judge lead. Other wise being a video shooteum up game, a dot is much less of a hassle to use across all of your rides. Especially since you don't have to use zoom in most of our furballs, just point to where you think the con will travel and click. I will bet a majority of players in our game use a dot because of the premium on forward visibility in our default view from any cockpit. Even my own squad mates look at my Historic gunsights and scratch their heads.

Learning the why of the historic gunsights I create is a hobby. Hitech's physics is good enough that the real world reasons for the larger rings, then evolving into the K14 series, is demonstrated reasonably. In the Pacific the K14 malfunctioned frequently in the beginning, and the default 70Mil fixed ring was too small for the pilots to engage in lead shooting. Back to the piles of discarded N-3 and retrofitting of MkII in the depots in England. That's probably the reason for the later fixed reticle rocket aid made from the L3\Mk8\N9 rocket aid reticle insert with only the bottom quarter of the 101Mil main ring.

The math for lead shooting is found in AAF Manual 200-1 , 30 January 1945. (page 28)
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Karnak

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Re: p-51
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2014, 12:09:50 AM »
I use your historical sights, bustr.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-