Author Topic: Boom and Zoom  (Read 1288 times)

Offline BnZs

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Boom and Zoom
« on: January 10, 2014, 06:58:18 AM »
I've been scanning Youtube AHII videos, but there don't seem to be any on this topic. There are a few videos that are labeled boom and zoom, but they just show running around at high speed taking shots. This is a valid tactic, but it isn't the real "art" of the boom and zoom, which is using an energy advantage and the vertical to continuously reposition and keep pressure on against a bandit in a more maneuverable plane, bleeding their energy and leading to a good shot. IMHO, possibly the most subtle art in ACM. Maybe one of the better pilots here could post a film of proper 1v1 boom and zoom so newer guys would have the right idea?

This very informative series of articles is still online though:

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_024a.html
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_025a.html
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_026a.html
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_027a.html

"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Gemini

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 02:20:03 PM »
1v1 boom and zoom is really nothing difficult or special...

1 (or 2-5) vs a significantly larger number of enemy planes is a bit more satisfying to pull off, although still not too difficult if you have good wingmen and good communication.



Offline BnZs

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 02:39:20 PM »
I'm sure a film of multiple bandit bnz would also be appreciated Gemini!

Eh, I think there is QUITE a learning curve in learning to fly a plane that absolutely cannot "saddle up" and just turn with the bandit effectively....nothing like in the cockpit views of flight paths, timing, and shot setups for getting over that curve.

Over and over on the BBS you hear complaints about P51 and 190 pilots doing "One pass, haul ass". But there don't seem to be a lot of instructional films available teaching energy fighting against more maneuverable fighter. I took a halfway-decent 190A5vFm2 film I may try to get posted next weekend.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Brooke

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 07:42:32 PM »
which is using an energy advantage and the vertical to continuously reposition and keep pressure on against a bandit in a more maneuverable plane, bleeding their energy and leading to a good shot.

From Fighter Combat:  Tactics and Maneuvering, by Shaw, that would be classified as energy tactics, I think.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 08:43:09 PM »
From Fighter Combat:  Tactics and Maneuvering, by Shaw, that would be classified as energy tactics, I think.

Boom and Zoom is a component of energy tactics and not a separate style like Energy and Angles Fighting (though one can argue that angles fighting is just another component of E fighting).  In Boom and Zoom tactics, the attacker is using his energy and altitude advantage to force the target to break and bleed energy to avoid the attack to the point that the target no longer has sufficient energy to avoid the attacker's next pass.

BnZ is right on the money that what players think is Boom and Zoom in the game is far from it.  Boom and Zoom is a very aggressive tactic, it has to be otherwise you allow the target to regain sufficient energy and altitude to continue to avoid and frustrate the attacker.  Proper Boom and Zoom has the attacker extending no further than outside of the targets gun range (no further than 2k yards) after the pass and then goes into a climb to regain altitude position and commence the attack again.  By being aggressive and pressing the attack, you don't allow the target any respite to regain any energy or altitude and in most cases the target (if they survive long enough) is forced to the deck which pretty much eliminates any avenue of escape unless the attacker grows sloppy and makes a mistake.

The 2nd biggest mistake I see when players try and Boom and Zoom is that they lose patience after a couple of passes if the target is successful in avoiding the previous passes.  In these cases the attacker does the stupid thing and burns his energy in trying to turn with the target when the target breaks, leading the attacker open to the over shoot and death.  In worst case scenarios, the target was in a slight nose down attitude to gain some energy and has sufficient energy to latch on the attacker's tail on the over shoot and stay there, reversing the tide of the fight and the attacker becomes the target all because of a lack of patience.

ack-ack  
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Offline WW1965

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2014, 09:38:20 AM »
Boom and Zoom is a component of energy tactics and not a separate style like Energy and Angles Fighting (though one can argue that angles fighting is just another component of E fighting).  In Boom and Zoom tactics, the attacker is using his energy and altitude advantage to force the target to break and bleed energy to avoid the attack to the point that the target no longer has sufficient energy to avoid the attacker's next pass.

BnZ is right on the money that what players think is Boom and Zoom in the game is far from it.  Boom and Zoom is a very aggressive tactic, it has to be otherwise you allow the target to regain sufficient energy and altitude to continue to avoid and frustrate the attacker.  Proper Boom and Zoom has the attacker extending no further than outside of the targets gun range (no further than 2k yards) after the pass and then goes into a climb to regain altitude position and commence the attack again.  By being aggressive and pressing the attack, you don't allow the target any respite to regain any energy or altitude and in most cases the target (if they survive long enough) is forced to the deck which pretty much eliminates any avenue of escape unless the attacker grows sloppy and makes a mistake.

The 2nd biggest mistake I see when players try and Boom and Zoom is that they lose patience after a couple of passes if the target is successful in avoiding the previous passes.  In these cases the attacker does the stupid thing and burns his energy in trying to turn with the target when the target breaks, leading the attacker open to the over shoot and death.  In worst case scenarios, the target was in a slight nose down attitude to gain some energy and has sufficient energy to latch on the attacker's tail on the over shoot and stay there, reversing the tide of the fight and the attacker becomes the target all because of a lack of patience.

ack-ack  

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Offline save

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2014, 05:20:43 PM »
Against spitfire16 you can max get 2 boomzooms with a yoyo out of a bounce,since the A8 lose E like crazy.
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
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Offline JimmyD3

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2014, 01:02:09 AM »
Boom and Zoom is a component of energy tactics and not a separate style like Energy and Angles Fighting (though one can argue that angles fighting is just another component of E fighting).  In Boom and Zoom tactics, the attacker is using his energy and altitude advantage to force the target to break and bleed energy to avoid the attack to the point that the target no longer has sufficient energy to avoid the attacker's next pass.

BnZ is right on the money that what players think is Boom and Zoom in the game is far from it.  Boom and Zoom is a very aggressive tactic, it has to be otherwise you allow the target to regain sufficient energy and altitude to continue to avoid and frustrate the attacker.  Proper Boom and Zoom has the attacker extending no further than outside of the targets gun range (no further than 2k yards) after the pass and then goes into a climb to regain altitude position and commence the attack again.  By being aggressive and pressing the attack, you don't allow the target any respite to regain any energy or altitude and in most cases the target (if they survive long enough) is forced to the deck which pretty much eliminates any avenue of escape unless the attacker grows sloppy and makes a mistake.

The 2nd biggest mistake I see when players try and Boom and Zoom is that they lose patience after a couple of passes if the target is successful in avoiding the previous passes.  In these cases the attacker does the stupid thing and burns his energy in trying to turn with the target when the target breaks, leading the attacker open to the over shoot and death.  In worst case scenarios, the target was in a slight nose down attitude to gain some energy and has sufficient energy to latch on the attacker's tail on the over shoot and stay there, reversing the tide of the fight and the attacker becomes the target all because of a lack of patience.

ack-ack  

Excellent write up AKAK, I even learned something. Not that I'm good enough to use it yet but, I appreciate your concise explanation sir.  :salute
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Offline Muzzy

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2014, 01:10:58 PM »
Excellent write up AKAK, I even learned something. Not that I'm good enough to use it yet but, I appreciate your concise explanation sir.  :salute

Question/comment: One thing I've noticed is that quite a few players who fly in the manner described make the mistake of bleeding their own energy in the process, then end up exactly where the turn bird wants them: low, slow and in a turn fight they cannot possibly win. Any tips for avoiding that?


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2014, 02:50:43 PM »
Question/comment: One thing I've noticed is that quite a few players who fly in the manner described make the mistake of bleeding their own energy in the process, then end up exactly where the turn bird wants them: low, slow and in a turn fight they cannot possibly win. Any tips for avoiding that?

Yeah, don't waste your energy trying to turn with the bandit as he breaks.  If you see the bandit break and you have too much speed to follow the break, level out and extend beyond gun range and go back into the vertical and repeat your attack.  What you described is the common mistake I mentioned, the Boom and Zoom attacker losing his patience and dumping all his energy for a shot.

ack-ack
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Offline Drano

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2014, 02:52:38 PM »
Question/comment: One thing I've noticed is that quite a few players who fly in the manner described make the mistake of bleeding their own energy in the process, then end up exactly where the turn bird wants them: low, slow and in a turn fight they cannot possibly win. Any tips for avoiding that?

It's a question of the BnZ pilot keeping track of his own E state. Extending too far as AKAK pointed out while conserving the BnZ guy's E state also allows the target to rebuild his own effectively nullifying the pass or passes. I had an engagement with a guy last week that did this and after probably a dozen passes I looked at my altimeter and hadn't lost a foot of height or any speed. This can go on seemingly forever, fuel being the limiting factor. If the BnZ guy misjudges either his own or his target's E state he may find himself co-E with his target and voila--he's not in a BnZ situation anymore. Now it's a turn fight. This will often times occur if the BnZ pilot hasn't extended far enough. That can be a fine line depending on the differrence in E states of the planes involved. That whole know when to hold em know when to fold em thing. You know the rest of that verse. ;) :salute
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Offline Drano

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 02:54:10 PM »
What you described is the common mistake I mentioned, the Boom and Zoom attacker losing his patience and dumping all his energy for a shot.

ack-ack

This too^^

Reminds me of something in Dicta Bullethead about exploiting the other guy's greed.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 03:04:31 PM »
Any tips for avoiding that?


There are lots of little things you can do to preserve your own energy.  Don't yank the stick, which produces more Gs than you need.  Keep wings level as you climb; do your turn later (assuming the tactical situation permits!).  Keep the ball centered so you don't incur unnecessary drag.  Zero-G dives often work as well as negative-G dives and bleed less energy.  Work at anticipating where you and the target will be so you can calculate your flight path with gentler maneuvers than if you have to judge things at the moment.  Others will have similar suggestions I'm certain.

- oldman

Offline Patches1

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 03:18:36 PM »
The F4U Corsair is a great example of BnZ against the Japanese Zero. Corsair pilots used their mass and massive engine to dive and regain altitude against the agile Zeros, and then... "out turned them" by using their roll rate whilst vertical and then dove in again...

Often folks ask how a Corsair can "out turn" other aircraft...the answer is...they don't: they out roll them using the energy tactics AKAK described.

Two separate concepts: turning and rolling...things get complicated when adding or subtracting energy. Corsairs are very good at both depending upon the energy state of each aircraft.

In this game I see the Corsair as being a "middle of the road" aircraft, an all around good plane to fly... a 5 on a scale of 1-10, it can haul bombs and rockets, take off from a CV and perform lacklusterly...unless piloted by an individual who understands the "energy fight" and in those hands... it shines.

Learn the energy fight....

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Offline morfiend

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Re: Boom and Zoom
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2014, 04:08:44 PM »
Yeah, don't waste your energy trying to turn with the bandit as he breaks.  If you see the bandit break and you have too much speed to follow the break, level out and extend beyond gun range and go back into the vertical and repeat your attack.  What you described is the common mistake I mentioned, the Boom and Zoom attacker losing his patience and dumping all his energy for a shot.

ack-ack


  I like this advice and try to tell players this whenever they ask about BnZ fighting.

  I like to add in Morf's ABC's of combat..... Always Be Climbing!

  If the enemy's break cant be followed then go up!  As Patches points out you can effectively "out turn" a plane with your roll,this is using the liftvector and pointing it at the enemy which will allow you to follow or turn into the enemy.


  Some good stuff in this thread!


   :salute