Top E Planes

[Slade]

Hello,

What would you say are the top three planes that retain E (Energy)?


Thanks,

Slade 

[Widewing]

Hello,

What would you say are the top three planes that retain E (Energy)?


Thanks,

Slade 

I did some testing years ago, and posted it here. The La-7 was the E champ, IIRC.

[Tank-Ace]

Brewster Buffalo  .

[BaldEagl]

Spits are certainly near the top of the list.  In level flight if you throttle off they slow down fast but in a combat situation they retain E through a turn like nothing else in the game and while their zoom climb in itself isn't great, their ability to climb combined with WEP compensates nicely.

[Ack-Ack]

P-38 has excellent energy retention, one of its best characteristics.

ack-ack

[ink]

I would say the Temp.....LA7....spit 16/8/9

[cobia38]

 A-20...but don't tell anyone   

[FLS]

Retaining E is not actually a thing. People use the phrase to refer to both minimizing drag and to slow speed turn performance. Neither retains E and the concept inhibits clear thinking about aircraft performance.

[Brooke]

An aircraft with zero drag would be perfect in retaining energy.  In that technical sense, retaining energy thus is the minimization of drag, especially induced drag since it is the larger component during maneuvers with substantial g's.  I would think Spitfires would be among the best there.  However, during the maneuver, the engine is also contributing energy, so if you include the effect of the engine, it is possible for a plane to go through a maneuver and have more energy at the completion of it back to the same altitude (consider a slight dive starting at 150 mph from 5000 ft to 4000 ft under full power, then back up to 5000 ft and ending up with more than 150 mph).  Taking that into account, it could be that an airplane with less induced drag (a Spit I, for example) could be outdone by a plane with a more induced drag but a bigger engine that more than compensates.  The La-7 does well there by Widewing's tests.

[FLS]

Are you ignoring fuel? Fuel is part of the total energy package.  You can minimize energy loss but you cannot hold on to it. You are converting some combination of speed, altitude, and fuel.

When people say the Brewster holds E they aren't referring to it's drag. It just has a good slow speed turn. Spits have both low drag and good slow speed turns.

My point is that the popular expression "holds E", is uselessly vague and is misleading. I don't doubt Widewing's results with the La-7, but I don't know what he compared and what he is telling us about it's performance.

[BnZs]

When I tested zoom climbs by 1. Diving to sea level. 2. Waiting for speed to bleed to 400 IAS 3. Doing a 3-G pullup, and 4. Using shift-X to hold the plane straight vertical until it fell off, I found that most ever WWII plane in the game zooms about 6K. But the P-38 held out till 7K in a zoom climb, because the counter-rotating props allow it to hang nose up longer without torque rolling.

[Slade]

My point is that the popular expression "holds E", is uselessly vague and is misleading.

• When I am in a jug dropping like a brick from 12k, level off on the deck at 500+ mph, then see a Spit16 or N1k 600 out on my 6.  I wonder what to call that aspect of the plane that enables that.  ...AND what planes do that best.
• When oldcoot SKOOLZ me in his P-51 where we engage with him being just slightly higher than me.  He did this by maintaining significantly greater alt and speed leaving me few choices.

In these instance it is not just pilot ACM skills (though oldcoot certainly has them).  The pilots in these and similar cases are taking advantage of __________ (insert preferred technical term).  I simply want to learn what IT is and get good at using IT.  I think we all would, who have not already mastered it.

Thanks all for your posts and advice.

[Karnak]

Are you ignoring fuel? Fuel is part of the total energy package.  You can minimize energy loss but you cannot hold on to it. You are converting some combination of speed, altitude, and fuel.

When people say the Brewster holds E they aren't referring to it's drag. It just has a good slow speed turn. Spits have both low drag and good slow speed turns.

My point is that the popular expression "holds E", is uselessly vague and is misleading. I don't doubt Widewing's results with the La-7, but I don't know what he compared and what he is telling us about it's performance.

Well, the term E doesn't refer to the next hour.  It refers to how much E the aircraft has to use at a given moment.  A P-51 cannot take 100 gallons of fuel and burn it in a few seconds to gain E on a Spitfire that cannot match that fuel burn rate.  The P-51B and Spitfire Mk IX in AH will actually burn fuel at almost exactly the same rate so how much E they will have in 45 minutes (none for the Spit as it'll have run out of fuel 15 minutes earlier) is useless data in terms of the E they have as they engage each other.

[DaveBB]

Yeah, E retention isn't defined enough.  But only a few factors need to be taken into consideration.  Horsepower, weight, and drag.  (Horsepower/lb weight)/(total drag).

[Randy1]

Hello,
. . .top three planes that retain

F4U1A
Brewster
Ki