Author Topic: Air Combat Question  (Read 2390 times)

Offline SirNuke

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2014, 01:43:47 PM »
My point is to win the first merge or recognize early you have lost the merge.  If at the merge you are nose up and he is nose down you got him or at least you have the first shot.  If he wins the first merge then you use the mustang speed to reset.  Don't try to save a lost merge.  Invest your E into a better position for the second merge.

Recognizing a lost merge is to me, a difficult decision if it is close call.  I want to be aggressive but trying to beat a lost lead turn will get you shot down every time.

you seem to have the dora-P51 matchup backwards

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2014, 11:20:21 PM »
I did it, and the results are mixed.

I took off, 100% fuel, no drops, did auto climb to 200ft, leveled off and set rate of climb to 260. As soon as speed on the E6B hit 255 I hit autoclimb and let it go to work.

Without WEP the PonyD wins. With WEP the Dora wins.

In thinking about my perception prior to running this test I missed the most obvious factor of all. I never leave the field in a 190 without a drop tank. All the times I've flown the Dora and put it into speed climb I was dragging around that extra barrel of gas, causing weight and drag issues. Yes, I can be that observant. And because of the internal fuel load of the PonyD I rarely add drop tanks.

Good to know all the way around.

boo

PS In the 190 I always burn the 'fwd' tank first, down to 50% (if I'm traveling far) or 25% (if its based defense) then shift to drop tank. With the 'fwd' tank closer to empty the 190 is a better turn plane.
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2014, 04:17:26 AM »
Yeah, would really have been weird if the Pony out climbed the Dora. If you fancy another go, try the Pony at 25% fuel and the Dora at 50% or 75%. I think the Dora would still edge out the Pony, but you never know with the huge gas tank on the Pony...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline earl1937

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2014, 08:23:52 AM »
Yeah, would really have been weird if the Pony out climbed the Dora. If you fancy another go, try the Pony at 25% fuel and the Dora at 50% or 75%. I think the Dora would still edge out the Pony, but you never know with the huge gas tank on the Pony...
:airplane:  Been an interesting thread about climb performance, but one thing that should be done to accurately reflect the climb rate is this: take off in the ponie, select aux tank, run it dry, land, then takeoff, establish a auto climb confg, then enter dot speed 152, then I think you will see the true climb performance of the 51D.

If you test the FW and the ponie with different ords load outs, the FW will probably out perform the 51 because of the different type of engine. The radial engines of that era were stronger, produced quicker torque, and handle weight a lot better than the in line engines. Grumman knew what they were doing when they produced all those great aircraft with radial engines instead of in lines.
The Allison and Packered inline engines were designed for one thing and one thing only, SPEED, which they did very well. I think I read somewhere, can't remember where, that Grumman tried a V-1650 in a F6F at one time, but can't remember results.
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2014, 09:56:01 AM »
By selecting 75% fuel load in the Pony you get empty aux tank, but full wing tanks. However, the Pony is usually flown with closer to 25% or 50% fuel in the MA due to its enormous endurance. Having 50% or even 75% in the Dora should make for a more realistic comparison of in-game performance.

The Fw 190D-9 "Dora" only looks like it has a radial engine because of the annual radiators mounted in front of the engine. Unlike the A-series which was powered by a BMW radial engine, the D-series had the Junkers Jumo 213 inverted V-12.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2014, 11:50:18 AM »
Yeah, would really have been weird if the Pony out climbed the Dora. If you fancy another go, try the Pony at 25% fuel and the Dora at 50% or 75%. I think the Dora would still edge out the Pony, but you never know with the huge gas tank on the Pony...

The WEP on the Dora is a monster. It added roughly 750ft/min climb rate and lasted all the way to 15k. (Actually, I took all tests to 16k because at 15k the wind kicked in and caused fluctuations in climb rate. By 16k it had stabilized again.) The PonyD WEP stopped about 10,300 feet though cooled down and I kicked it in about 14,200 feet.

boo
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2014, 12:24:43 PM »
Yeah, the water-injected rides have a lot of WEP power.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline earl1937

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2014, 10:37:45 AM »
Yeah, the water-injected rides have a lot of WEP power.
:airplane: This is not about the thread, but just wanted to say thanks for your technical info, I find it to be right on, and useful! Thanks :salute
Blue Skies and wind at my back and wish that for all!!!

Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2014, 01:55:17 AM »
Happy to  :salute
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."