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Author Topic: Air Combat Question  (Read 2401 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2014, 05:16:04 PM »
I realize that Mthrockmor, but the physics doesn't work like that. I'll test it when I reinstall AH sometime in the future (prolly when the gfx update is up).
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2014, 05:26:29 PM »
I suspect it has something to do with the dihedral wing design of the PonyD, which is designed for maximum speed.

If there was a chart that showed climb rate at various speeds I am presuming the ideal speed is in the 159knt range, though may change with altitude. 2k/min is not the maximum climb rate though the PonyD will do that (at least in the game) at 260knts, the Dora doesn't. I'll test them both again and post the results on the boards.

boo
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Offline ink

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2014, 05:26:49 PM »
turn and engage as soon as he is spotted....a nose hi turn is better in my mind......

flaps are awesome in the 51 get them ready.....merge with him to get as close to a HO shot as possible without giving him a gun solution....if his left wing is high merge to his right and vice verse.....

when you get guns, take your shot, if you time it right you will kill the pilot and fight is over..if by chance he is still alive and stays fast climb into his direction......if he turns back into you..... he wants to fight....

now is the time to pop flaps and drop throttle.....fly to where he is gonna be and let him fly into your rounds. :aok
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2014, 05:37:37 PM »
Quote from: mthrockmor on January 11, 2014, 05:26:29 PM
I suspect it has something to do with the dihedral wing design of the PonyD, which is designed for maximum speed.

If there was a chart that showed climb rate at various speeds I am presuming the ideal speed is in the 159knt range, though may change with altitude. 2k/min is not the maximum climb rate though the PonyD will do that (at least in the game) at 260knts, the Dora doesn't. I'll test them both again and post the results on the boards.

boo

Make sure to do it at an altitude where the Dora is faster. Try .speed 260 autoclimb from the deck on WEP and measure the climb rate as both planes pass 4k ft; the Dora should out climb the Pony at any speed.

Btw. speeds in AH are in MPH not knots.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 05:46:46 PM by GScholz »
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2014, 05:56:28 PM »
I'll post tomorrow with WEP and without WEP from deck to 20k and attempt to track rate of climb at each 1k interval.

boo
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2014, 06:10:04 PM »
Without WEP the Dora will be inferior to the Pony at all altitudes.
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Offline SirNuke

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2014, 06:44:49 PM »
I feel like the P51D dominates the D9 in an maneuvering combat, leaving the D9 only with the run option....my 2c
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2014, 06:53:08 PM »
Not in my experience. Pony turns better, Dora climbs better (and thus regains E faster) and is faster at most combat alts in the MA.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2014, 10:47:22 PM »
I would do a hard flat turn and try to get him to follow me (working to avoid the forward-quarter shot at the start of the engagement).  If he sticks on you as you turn, I would keep the hard turn, and as he gets closer (400-600 yards depending on how his gun solution on me looks), drop one notch of flaps then perhaps one more if needed to keep out of his line of fire.  The 190D can't deploy flaps until it gets very slow, so you can outturn him for a while.  A good 190D pilot won't get trapped by that, but in his work not to get trapped by it, it can help equalize the engagement for you.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2014, 11:08:42 PM »
Even if he gets trapped by following the Pony in a flat turn fight, it's not really a trap; if the Dora pilot smartens up he can easily escape the situation by spiral-climbing. The Dora will then be above the Pony and has regained the initiative.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2014, 11:29:14 PM »
Quote from: earl1937 on January 11, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
:airplane: Really curious about what you guys would do in this situation! I am in a 51D, with about 40% fuel left, slight climbing attitude, about 200FPM, and I notice a 190D9 about 2 K behind me. I engage wep, look back and he is now still about 2k back. After about 3 or 4 mins in this config, he is now down to 1.75K and is becoming more apparent that I am going to have to engage this guy, or set there and let him kill me. I only have about 260 rounds of ammo left, so what ever I do, its got be good.
Now the question: What should I do to prevail over this guy?
Force an overshoot, snapshot, and put a new zipper down the middle of his canopy.   :salute
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Offline earl1937

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2014, 07:21:16 AM »
Quote from: Puma44 on January 11, 2014, 11:29:14 PM
Force an overshoot, snapshot, and put a new zipper down the middle of his canopy.   :salute
:airplane: Wouldn't you know it, I had that very setup last night. What I did was roll into a 90 degree left bank, pushed forward on stick, started an outside turn back to right, then snapped left roll to vertical right bank, pulled hard on stick and there he was 600 out, trying to finished up the left turn he thought I was going to make with my first move. Didn't kill him, but smoked his engine and then one of this buddies drew my attention away, so don't know if I killed him or not, because his buddie, (GHI), had me dead to rights and down I went!
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Online The Fugitive

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2014, 07:39:32 AM »
Quote from: earl1937 on January 11, 2014, 12:20:32 PM
:airplane: Gosh, been through this setup so many times in this game! I have turned into the guy, with nose down for speed, then he just split "S" on me as quick as a cat on a June bug, as I pass under him. I have tried going vertical, with a hammer head turn at top, hoping to get a "ho" on the way down, he turns off and I over shoot trying follow him.

"nose down" doesn't mean dive as fast as you can. As you turn back into him drop the nose a few degrees. This will build speed and give you a bit of vertical separation from the bad guy. You don't want to dive so much that he has the option for a split S. Your not going to be building a ton of speed quick but you WILL be adding to it.

2K is pretty close as well, but turning into him right away would work better than a chase were it really becomes too late to turn into him. Also, when you turn into him for the merge yo get to see what "he" wants to do, fight, bnz, be aggressive, be a wuss  :devil If he is a wuss and stays on his perch and gives up E wearily the merge may give you bigger separation and and an escape opportunity if that is your choice (being low ammo).

Just running eats up your options, merging opens up doors.
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Offline bozon

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2014, 11:02:43 AM »
If he is 2K out that is enough separation to just turn around and kill it.

Then continue flying home while reading a book.
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Air Combat Question
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2014, 11:16:09 AM »
My point is to win the first merge or recognize early you have lost the merge.  If at the merge you are nose up and he is nose down you got him or at least you have the first shot.  If he wins the first merge then you use the mustang speed to reset.  Don't try to save a lost merge.  Invest your E into a better position for the second merge.

Recognizing a lost merge is to me, a difficult decision if it is close call.  I want to be aggressive but trying to beat a lost lead turn will get you shot down every time.
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