FW-190 A5 Speed@sea level.

[J.A.W.]

What needed to be redesigned for an a/c that had a top speed of 435-440mph?

No jaw I was not wrong about the Tempest as a front line a/c.

m.m., that P-38 Vne is 'bout ~100mph slower than the Tempest's & too slow to effectively counter 109/190s too,
That is one of the reasons the 8th AF dumped it..

& making up ex-postfacto qualifying nonsense about front-line or not  - as a face-saver,  is just sad - I.M.O...

[Karnak]

But Spitfire critical Mach was not so useful in combat, & not approved in the pilots notes..

Carrying 2,000lbs of bombs isn't approved in the pilots notes for the Mossie VI either.  It still did it many times.

You'll find that many of the things not approved in the pilots notes end up being peace time bans, not hard rules that can't be pushed or bent or ignored.

[J.A.W.]

True, there are official combat reports by Tempest pilots going off the end of their ASI readings @ 600+ mph
in dives, but as long as they were nailing a Nazi turbo-jet or long-nose or something, I guess it could be over-looked.

Does not alter the fact though - that the high critical Mach speeds the Spitfire was capable of,
 were of not much practical combat use against 109/190s..

[Karnak]

but as long as they were nailing a Nazi turbo-jet or long-nose or something, I guess it could be over-looked.

Spitfires of the LF.Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI varieties also bagged those things.

[J.A.W.]

Spitfires of the LF.Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI varieties also bagged those things.

Even Typhoons did, but alas not P-38s (Nazi turbo-jets)..

& Tempests did bag the full set, inc He 162, & Ta 152, don't think any other allied plane did..

[Karnak]

Even Typhoons did, but alas not P-38s (Nazi turbo-jets)..

& Tempests did bag the full set, inc He 162, & Ta 152, don't think any other allied plane did..

How many 162s were bagged though? One?  Two?  Can't recall off hand.

Tempest missed out on the Do335.  Saw one at least.  Well, at least if Closterman is to be believed.

[Ack-Ack]

Even Typhoons did, but alas not P-38s (Nazi turbo-jets)..

& Tempests did bag the full set, inc He 162, & Ta 152, don't think any other allied plane did..

As I pointed out in another thread, a P-38 pilot from the 479th FG shot down a Me 163, which was faster than a Me 262 and the P-38 exceeded 500mph in the dive to make the kill.  The P-38 pilot safely pulled out of the dive (without the aid of dive flaps, he was in an early P-38J-15) as he was able to avoid going into compressibility when he started his dive at high altitude.



ack-ack

Oh the irony,
Since A.A. resorts to spurious references as ad-hominem substitute for non-knowledge & absence of facts..

Everything I've posted on the Lightning can be backed up by the historical record and other data, however, none of your straw man arguments can.  

ack-ack

[J.A.W.]

& as I pointed out in reply A.A., that P-38 ASI must have out-of-whack,
since the P-38 was beyond control at those speeds.. ..or it is propaganda/B.S..

Was there any gun-camera footage?

Care to post the combat report?

& ,

So  - he bagged a glider, ( un-powered Me 163) good effort.. is that it?

As to your failure to understand what 'strawman' actually means, that too is ironic..

[MiloMorai]

m.m., that P-38 Vne is 'bout ~100mph slower than the Tempest's & too slow to effectively counter 109/190s too,
That is one of the reasons the 8th AF dumped it..

& making up ex-postfacto qualifying nonsense about front-line or not  - as a face-saver,  is just sad - I.M.O...

So a Tempest could do ~540mph in level flight.

What is sad is someone who continually gets vacations on BBS's.

[J.A.W.]

Back to the studies m.m., & look up the difference between Vmax & Vne..

The P-38 never made 440mph in level flight according to USAAF official testing..

& kindly cease the provocation, or  I will report every example of it to Skuzzy..

[J.A.W.]

Knak, here is a USAAF P-51 encounter with He 162 report , too bad it didn't have 4 Hisso cannon, might've got 'im..

http://www.spitfirevsbf109.com/files/He162encounteredinCombat.pdf

[Karnak]

Knak, here is a USAAF P-51 encounter with He 162 report , too bad it didn't have 4 Hisso cannon, might've got 'im..

http://www.spitfirevsbf109.com/files/He162encounteredinCombat.pdf

Or any cannons.  One Wing Commander who hadn't flown much since the Battle of Britain nailed a Bf109's wing from a 60-90 degree deflection and was very surprised to see his Spitfire's rounds simply blow the wing off.  He was used to the .303s.

[Tank-Ace]

See Rule #4

[bustr]

Sad thing about that link JAW gives, the P51 pilot reported in debriefing, his manifold pressure was 72 inches, not 67 inches like both our ponies.

[J.A.W.]

Exactly..

& @ T-A, I'm yet to find a single Typhoon/Tempest pilot who wanted to reduce his cannon count..

(Tempests in the 2nd TAF were toting the fast-firing H-S Mk V cannon too, does the A-H Tempest?)

You surely must've heard the old adage.. "Nothing kills - like over-kill.."