Kill the huge maps in off hours . . . PLEASE

[Greebo]

IIRC only 3 or 4 of the current 13 maps are of the larger 512 mile size, but they are up for something like 3/4 of the time each tour. One way to help balance this would be to adopt Fester's idea of having different war win conditions for each map. So for big maps you might have to get say 10% of each of the other two sides fields to win and for small maps 25%, or whatever percentage works to turn over the maps at a more even rate.

[Vortex]

IIRC only 3 or 4 of the current 13 maps are of the larger 512 mile size, but they are up for something like 3/4 of the time each tour. One way to help balance this would be to adopt Fester's idea of having different war win conditions for each map. So for big maps you might have to get say 10% of each of the other two sides fields to win and for small maps 25%, or whatever percentage works to turn over the maps at a more even rate.

That's a very good idea, and a sensible starting point in resolving this issue. As you correctly note, the large maps have a disproportionate representation of time in the map rotation cycle due to the fact that they are rarely conquered. Although I would prefer to see them removed outright, I think some tweaking along the lines of what you suggest is a positive alternative.

[Randy1]

IIRC only 3 or 4 of the current 13 maps are of the larger 512 mile size, but they are up for something like 3/4 of the time each tour. One way to help balance this would be to adopt Fester's idea of having different war win conditions for each map. So for big maps you might have to get say 10% of each of the other two sides fields to win and for small maps 25%, or whatever percentage works to turn over the maps at a more even rate.

I still like my bases fogged in idea but I can see his approach would be easier on man hours.  Would the different win conditions float with the number of players?

[TheRapier]

Whether you "fog" the bases or just make the ones on the periphery non-usuable (which I suggested months ago) or just make smaller maps or change the winning conditions per map, the main point is that the game on the current rotation of maps is only viable for 4 out of 24 hours in a day. This would seem to be clearly unacceptable for an MMOG business. The writing has been clearly on the wall for a while.

It would be like having an internet retailer whose site only functions 4 hours a day, and for the European and Asia users, in the middle of their night. Such a business shouldn't be surprised when their business drops through the floor. Action sooner rather than later would seem to be a wise thing to do.

There have been a number of moves that have benefited sub communities within the overall. This one would benefit everyone and based on that, it would be the hope that it gets attention ahead of releases that benefit segments.

[ImADot]

If people truly wanted to fight, they'd go to where other people were gathering; size of the map wouldn't matter. The fact that everyone wants to sneak around or go somewhere to avoid others, speaks more of a problem with the player base than with the maps.

If those 40 or so "off-peak" players all wanted to fight, they would ask around the arena and the action would be concentrated in small areas even on big maps.

[Chalenge]

IIRC only 3 or 4 of the current 13 maps are of the larger 512 mile size, but they are up for something like 3/4 of the time each tour. One way to help balance this would be to adopt Fester's idea of having different war win conditions for each map. So for big maps you might have to get say 10% of each of the other two sides fields to win and for small maps 25%, or whatever percentage works to turn over the maps at a more even rate.

This "fix" would only alienate more players and lower the user base even further.

[Vortex]

This "fix" would only alienate more players and lower the user base even further.

You're going to need to explain that.

[Plawranc]

Tonight was very bad, gameplay wise. Not only were fights scattered but if you wanted to look around for a fight, you could not because of the 12 hour country change rule.

Something has to give, either change the country change rule back to one hour or give us small maps where no one can hide.

[TheRapier]

This weekend went from horrible on Saturday to playable on Sunday.

It's amazing how your can drop 350 people into a map and end up with no action at all. Saturday wasn't even 4 HourMart. When you a sizable number of people involved in avoiding combat like the 2 hour Bish raid on the strats that was completely off the map, circling outside the outside edge, you start to wonder what is the point.

ImADot is correct but there is an incredible number of people who enter a combat game to avoid combat and gain points. I would humbly suggest that if the solution were simple, it would be accomplished already. I believe that its more helpful to embrace the fact that there are forces at work that can't be addressed by saying "the players just have to change what they are doing". The reality is that the game conditions and here specifically map size, is killing the reason for having a game.

Both sounds very good at this point. Beats the heck out of literally wasting 6 hours online to do nothing.

[Latrobe]

Both sounds very good at this point. Beats the heck out of literally wasting 6 hours online to do nothing.

I used to fly several dozen sorties a day back when we had the 1 hour rule. Ever since it was switched to 12 hours my flying time has been declining. Now I'm only flying 2-4 sorties a day and spending roughly 6 hours in total just looking at the map, finally getting fed up and logging off. There are more people doing just this as well, and over time more people have just stopped logging in or ended their account. AH2 not being as well known as something like War Thunder is one of the causes for us not getting more blood into this game, but I think everyone leaving at an increased rate since the 12 hour rule is another problem and one that can be fixed immediately.

We need to make the needed changes to keep the players we currently have or else even the small maps will be pretty barren as well.

[Randy1]

This weekend went from horrible on Saturday to playable on Sunday.

It's amazing how your can drop 350 people into a map and end up with no action at all.

. . .

The number of players in GVs throws off the look of the map.  I keep thinking there should be more planes.  Maybe Lusche could throw up something that shows a ratio of "Kills by" GVs and planes or something like that to understand the weekends play.

[Lusche]

The number of players in GVs throws off the look of the map.  I keep thinking there should be more planes.  Maybe Lusche could throw up something that shows a ratio of "Kills by" GVs and planes or something like that to understand the weekends play.

This weekend we had CraterMA (Greebos small map), which on which GV vs GV usually have a 60%+  share of all arena kills (tour average is ~33%)
However, this is a bit misleading, as there are far from being 60% of all players in GVs. The crater spawn battle is extremely intensive, resulting in very high GV kills per hour. This is also supported by having not much less than the usual amount air to air kills in the same time.
My own estimation would be that the number of players in GV's is only somewhat higher than the standard average of 25% of all players in a sortie, maybe in the 30-35% range? When I logged in during off hours, there were times with nothing happening in the crater at all (at a total arena population of 50-80). During peak, I checked the numbers in TT by film, finding about 20% of the players on my side (rooks) being in GV in the crater itself.

[bustr]

If you take from how the majority of WT players play that game, and the current in game population driving tanks to fight as a cautionary tale. The majority in our game don't want to the expend effort at becoming Latrobe to succeed in the air. Nor do they want do more than point their pipper at something and calculate beyond two dimensions.

Unless you corner someone who doesn't want to fight, he will avoid you. If you do make him fight, when it's over, all you will have accomplished is validating his self knowledge that he sucks at what you enjoy, which ends up making him feel lousy about himself and this game. People do not pay to have a bad time, that's called their real life.

If you allow all the Latrobe(s) to concentrate themselves at any time, anywhere, to maximize their fun. Quickly you will see more players enjoying the GV game because we have a limited population right now. Whenever Greebo's new map is up, TT has the longest run of players staying to play past US prime time when I look in. Everyone just hides behind trees and berms shooting one shot at a time feeling some what secure and a higher sense that they can accomplish something other than be Latrobe(s) fodder. How do you know they are having fun, guys just keep coming back no matter how many times they get nailed by a Tiger II, hiding a gazillion miles away using it's laser vision sniping them.

Does something need to change, YES. Let Hitech change it, he is the expert at this kind of social dynamics. The Latrobe(s) would have a great time right down until the last red guy quit and went to WT.

More bomber crewmen died in ww2 than fighter pilots. Goes to the nature of men, and why the number of Latrobe(s) in any combat game is predictably below 20% of the player base.

[Megalodon]

This weekend we had CraterMA (Greebos small map), which on which GV vs GV usually have a 60%+  share of all arena kills (tour average is ~33%)
However, this is a bit misleading, as there are far from being 60% of all players in GVs. The crater spawn battle is extremely intensive, resulting in very high GV kills per hour. This is also supported by having not much less than the usual amount air to air kills in the same time.
My own estimation would be that the number of players in GV's is only somewhat higher than the standard average of 25% of all players in a sortie, maybe in the 30-35% range? When I logged in during off hours, there were times with nothing happening in the crater at all (at a total arena population of 50-80). During peak, I checked the numbers in TT by film, finding about 20% of the players on my side (rooks) being in GV in the crater itself.

 When I logged in Sat. TT had about 45-50 rooks with 90 rooks online that's a lot more than 20%. Over 100 players at TT total out of about 190.

[BnZs]

Okay Bustr, I've read about a dozen of these "people who are good at fighter combat drive away players" and "most people are doomed to hopeless incompetence at online fighter-pileiting" posts of yours and I think it is horsehockey.
When one gets shot down, one's natural instinct is to re-up for vengeance. When one gets shot down by a "leet" move, ones natural reaction is to try and become more "leet"-for vengeance. And you don't have to be leet to kill as much as you die in furballs anyway-who could ask for anything more? ACM IS the draw of a game like this to most people, if they matriculate to something else it is likely because somehow game play conditions are not rewarding fighter combat/air superiority. Oh, and also all sides have their "Latrobes", so that bit balances out.
If anything drives away players, it is not being able to find a place to engage other human-controlled aircraft in combat during off hours. I've heard lots of complaints about that and not one cry of "I quit because the uber-pilots spanked me too hard"

If you take from how the majority of WT players play that game, and the current in game population driving tanks to fight as a cautionary tale. The majority in our game don't want to the expend effort at becoming Latrobe to succeed in the air. Nor do they want do more than point their pipper at something and calculate beyond two dimensions.

Unless you corner someone who doesn't want to fight, he will avoid you. If you do make him fight, when it's over, all you will have accomplished is validating his self knowledge that he sucks at what you enjoy, which ends up making him feel lousy about himself and this game. People do not pay to have a bad time, that's called their real life.

If you allow all the Latrobe(s) to concentrate themselves at any time, anywhere, to maximize their fun. Quickly you will see more players enjoying the GV game because we have a limited population right now. Whenever Greebo's new map is up, TT has the longest run of players staying to play past US prime time when I look in. Everyone just hides behind trees and berms shooting one shot at a time feeling some what secure and a higher sense that they can accomplish something other than be Latrobe(s) fodder. How do you know they are having fun, guys just keep coming back no matter how many times they get nailed by a Tiger II, hiding a gazillion miles away using it's laser vision sniping them.

Does something need to change, YES. Let Hitech change it, he is the expert at this kind of social dynamics. The Latrobe(s) would have a great time right down until the last red guy quit and went to WT.

More bomber crewmen died in ww2 than fighter pilots. Goes to the nature of men, and why the number of Latrobe(s) in any combat game is predictably below 20% of the player base.