Author Topic: Latest Russian fighter demo  (Read 4536 times)

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2014, 12:23:09 PM »
IIRC the F15 airframes are breaking midair already from service life...

The most famous case of this was poor quality control in the factory.  The webbing on a longeron of an F-15 is supposed to be .100" thick.  In this case, it came from the factory at about .040" thick (actually a bit less, ~.037").  It's a wonder the plane flew as long as it did.

I know of no other recent (within the last 10 years) F-15s breaking up in mid-air. 
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2014, 02:23:37 PM »
Reading this was one of the biggest waste of 2 mins in my life. http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.ca/2013/10/rant-hey-billie-flynn-war-isnt-playtime.html

Hes telling an experienced fighter pilot and test pilot that war isnt playtime and then blubbers on like an emotional child.
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Going to war means that many of our best will sacrifice their lifestyles, their health, their very sanity.

Going to war means families will be ripped apart.

Going to war means people will die.

If Canada gets dragged into a war, it won't be to show off.  If for some reason, we aren't allowed to join a coalition, then we obviously weren't needed there in the first place.  As a civilized society, and as a country with a peaceful reputation, our aim is to avoid war...  Not to join in with the warmongering nations just because it is the "in thing to do".

WTF does any of that have to do with fighter aircraft?
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Offline Gman

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2014, 03:24:08 PM »
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Be forewarned, the author will remind you of that Australian air power site, but some of his points and links are interesting

I warned everyone that it was run by a guy reminiscent of the Australia air power site, ie a nut.  There are probably 200 pages on that site, and maybe 3 or 4 relevant points and a couple readable links, and I linked the only important one, the statements by another SETP test pilot regarding the relevant F35 discussion.   I only linked it as it's where the information/link for the other test pilot was found, as some people demand proof and links for every bit of information they don't like.  Again, I posted fair warning about that site, your 2 minutes wasted is your own fault if you didn't stop reading after 10 seconds.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 03:27:24 PM by Gman »

Offline GScholz

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2014, 08:09:53 PM »

NO I mean the new generation of 15s and 16s..   They can buy them for cheaper and maintiance is cheaper also.   A f15 is around $30000 per flight hour, were as the F22 is $52,800 per flight hour. You could fly almost 2 F15s for the price of the F22.

I'd rather have one F-22 than two F-15s... Or even ten F-15s.

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2014, 10:44:06 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtZG40H5OU

The Dutch taking one of their birds up...
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2014, 10:46:48 PM »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Gman

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2014, 11:22:26 PM »
That British perspective video brings up a pretty valid point, IMO, in that the assault carriers of the USA, as well as the smaller CV's in various other nations fleets such as the UK, and many others, can gain a whole new level of capability over the current STOVL aircraft with the F35.   Going from the extremely short range little bomb truck in the Harrier, to a fighter that has much more range and stealth capability, I would think, and hope, that it would really let the smaller assault class ships punch far above their weight class.  Time will tell I guess.  I would think that having 2 little assault ships along with a CVN in a future battle group would give the USN and USMC another 40 or so just as capable fighters as what's on the big deck, which is a massive boost in available airframes, giving a future force of such structure over 100 gen 5 stealth fighters.  

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 12:19:45 AM by Gman »

Offline eagl

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #97 on: February 01, 2014, 01:38:55 AM »
Yea, F-35 has a lot of thrust.  It comes from a source that is as old as history.




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Offline Gman

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #98 on: February 01, 2014, 03:59:46 AM »
Hah, I saw that pic on another site a couple days ago and laughed. 

Eagl, what do you think of the Silent Eagle?  They are up in Ottawa right now pitching it to the RCAF along with Boeing, and teams from France, as well as a team from the Typhoon people.  Saab has dropped out as they can't provide enough airplanes by 2023, and we need to start replacing CF18's by 2017 at the latest, which means an order needs to be put in this year in order for that to start happening. 

I like the Silent Eagle, since the RCAF's primary mission is to defend the northern part of the NORAD grid, defensive stealth isn't quite as critical, as there aren't many enemy radar stations up there to defend against, just recons planes and potential long range bombers.  Rumor from the papers up here and defense industry daily is that it's down to the Super Hornet or the Silent Eagle, with perhaps a multi type deal including a small number of F35's later on.  It's a very complex process up here right now.  http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/canada-preparing-to-replace-its-cf-18-hornets-05739/  is a decent article from last week about it.

Offline eagl

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #99 on: February 01, 2014, 07:04:55 AM »
I like the silent eagle concept.  Remember, stealth only has to be good enough to let you get close enough to shoot first and then escape.  For an interceptor and air defense role, the F-15 is still outstanding especially with the newer engines and avionics packages.  And the upgraded F-15E airframe which is now standard for all F-15s, the airframe is extremely strong and durable.  I saw video of an F-15C that pulled about 12Gs and although it flew home, the plane was destroyed as it broke the motor mounts and badly bent the airframe.  A friend of mine about 16 yrs ago pulled 12.5Gs in an F-15E and 2 weeks later the plane was returned to service after inspections and replacing a couple of cracked vent grilles.

So the plane is strong/durable, has a proven ability to withstand combat damage (including one that flew home after a direct aim-9 hit oops), is extremely fast especially by modern standards, and with upgraded avionics/radar is still world class in terms of systems and sensor integration.  If anyone buys the extra outer wing pylons that the USAF never bought, the plane can carry 10 missiles in an air defense configuration.  The plane has the whole package in terms of combat capability, with the exception of "stealth".  Well, the silent eagle program really cuts down the RCS to the point where it may not be first into a modern air defense system, but it is more survivable than before and would be much more capable as an interceptor or strike package escort due to its speed and lower detection range after the low observable treatments and modifications.

Plus... mach 2.5.  Seriously.  And it was the world's first supercruising fighter, no matter what they say about the F-22.  Even the "small" motor -220 versions could go supersonic in mil power when completely clean, and the -129 and -229 versions had very appropriate warnings in the tech order about inadvertent non-afterburning supersonic flight even with some combat loadouts.

So, yea I'm a fan, and sad to see both the US and Korea pass on the opportunity to refresh their fleets with very capable and updated F-15s.  The Saudis know that the whole world fears the F-15E, and that's why they recently bought another couple dozen and also bought upgrades to their F-15S fleet, alongside their purchase of some Eurofighters.  Singapore bought them too, when they decided that they needed a heavy fighter instead of a bunch of vipers or other little fighters.  I don't know any F-15 operators who have been dissatisfied with them, so I remain a fan of them as a cost effective no-holds-barred interceptor and strike fighter.

Plus, the radar.  My god.  It's incredible.  The capability that the radar alone brings to the fight still makes up for the plane's size and RCS for any use not involving penetrating the air defenses of a superpower on day zero.  On night one though, beware...  An airplane flying Mach .9 at 100 ft at night in all weather is hard to intercept no matter what you're chasing it with.




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Offline icepac

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #100 on: February 01, 2014, 10:13:53 AM »
If they ever come up with a sub that can carry a couple of F35s, the game will change once again.

Offline artik

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #101 on: February 01, 2014, 11:55:50 AM »
If they ever come up with a sub that can carry a couple of F35s, the game will change once again.

Actually...

they should extend the program and create Joint Strike Submarine Fighter such that it would be able operate submerged, takeoff and land vertically from a submerged position and of course be stealthy. This way you can save a cost on a submarine and aircraft carrier development  :x

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Offline GScholz

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #102 on: February 01, 2014, 12:42:46 PM »
Eagl... Don't you think you're being more than slightly hypocritical? The F-15SE over the F-35? Seriously?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #103 on: February 01, 2014, 12:58:54 PM »
One thing stood out to me as I watched the Dutch flight of the F-35.  Notice the very high AoA to both get airborne and the same very high AoA to arrest the sink rate as the pilot landed.  That's a function of very high wing loading.

Also, on the F-35B, why does the lift fan door open parallel to the aircraft's airframe.  It seems that it's acting as a huge airbrake.  Wouldn't it have been more efficient at getting to flying speed if the doors opened in a clamshell configuration?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 01:04:21 PM by DaveBB »
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Latest Russian fighter demo
« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2014, 01:11:47 PM »
Why would you say that? Angle of attack during landing is very similar to that of an F-16. Landing speeds are also similar.

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."