Advice needed

[wpeters]

How do you fight in each class of 190 s which one is the best for the dog fight

[mthrockmor]

Kurt Tank designed the Fw-190 for high speed dives and slash attacks. The idea, gain lots of alt, dive on the bad guy, hit them hard with 20mm, etc and zoom up to alt for another pass. At this the Butcher Bird excels. This accounts for the big ailerons and the awesome roll rate, especially at high speed.

- Flown by pure design the Fw-190A8 is likely the best overall bird. Does well at 30k and below, has awesome firepower (best of all the 190s) and outrolls the Dora or 152.
- The 152 is the best turner at altitude, great speed, though takes some practice to make the smaller gun package (smaller than buff killing A8) work. You will see some real veterans in their 152s thrash everyone else at lower alts, though that is skill-centric.
- The consensus for many experts is the Dora was the ultimate 190. For many reasons it is a great plane, at fighting altitude it is one of the fastest, possibly the best acceleration and with the 20mms enough firepower to kill anything in one pass. It was designed to excel below 15k, not as good above that.

I choose the A5 as the best plane though, for the game. In real life maybe not, in this game I say yes. In a dive with those massive ailerons it is more than enough for any other late-war bird. It has great acceleration and performs adequate at extreme altitude. The firepower is great, though I recommend against the 4x20mm package for one reason, weight.

In-game most fights eventually end up on the deck in some fashion. The trick in killing the Butcher Bird is to survive the high altitude, high speed slashing, BnZ fight, burn their alt, then their speed and get them on the deck for the kill. Of all the 190s the A5 is the lightest, great power and acceleration and will perform the best in a stall fight on the deck.

You will run into some sticks who make it seem otherwise. Pervert in the Dora, Blueberry and others in the 152, Save and a few in the A8 though that is because of pilot skill, not the plane itself.

Fight on the deck, A5
Fight at extreme altitude (above 20k) 152
Overall buff killer, A8
Slash and BnZ 8-15k, Dora
Overall in real life, A8
Overall in-game, A5

Thus speaketh boo, member of the Butcher Bird mafia and A5 driver extraordinaire!

[Flame on!]

[mthrockmor]

PS How to fight them? Speed and altitude, Boom and Zoom, gain lots of speed in a dive, make one hard pass and climb for altitude with WEP on. Repeat ad nauseam.

Of the four 190s (F8 is a ground attack bird, heavy armor, keep on the deck for bombs and rockets) the 152 has compression stall issues. This means above a certain speed the controls lock up and if you don't chop throttle, stomp on rudder and give it lots of trim tap you'll faceplant at 600+ knots. You will find that most Butcher Bird drivers tend to burn the 'Forward' tank to 25-50% for stability issues.

Defensively use speed and roll rate to shake attackers. Many birds to keep up with the 190 in a dive (P-47, P-51, Spit8, Typhoon, Tempest, F4Us, etc, etc, etc though they cannot keep up with your roll rate. Roll 90 degrees, pull some Gs and when they roll to turn with you, reverse your roll hard and pull some Gs...do this two or three times and they will be rapidly out of the fight.

[Rogue9Volt]

Excellent advice...

I really like the 190's, and wish I were much better in them.  A5 especially.

[BaldEagl]

First of all, understand the difference in the models.

190A-5: Best turner of the group and probably the lightest.  Like the D-9, only two fuel tanks.

190A-8: Best gun package of the group and thus the best buff hunter.  An extra fuel tank offers extended range, it's heavily aromored and can really take a beating but is, along with the F-8, the slowest of the group.

190D-9:  Among the fastest aircraft in the game.  A pure B'n'Z fighter.

190F-8:  Performance similar to the A-8, the F-8 is the best ground attack plane of the family.  The bomb and the rockets are deadly to GV's.  Don't fire the rockets until the GV has just passed out of sight under your nose.

Ta152-H:  Among the best high-alt fighters in the game.  Very fast over 20K, good gun package and glides forever if the engine quits (It's prone to radiator damage).  The 152 is slowest in a dive (you need to keep it in the 450 range where the others are good for 600+).

That said there are many similarities among them:

Keep the 190 fast whenever possible.  The common "It can't turn" wisdom is false.  You can flat-turn for ~540 degrees before it starts to lose speed and you have to exit.  When turning, never turn so hard that the stall buzzer sounds.  That said, if you sense the other pilot isn't as good as you, you can dump as many as all three notches of flaps and go for it.  The first set will engage at ~175 mph.  If you start to lose ground, pull the flaps in, hit WEP to extend, then turn back and re-set the fight.  I wouldn't do this until you have quite a bit of experience though.  The 190's, particularily the A-8, have a nasty snap-roll when slow that will auger you if you don't feel it coming.

Use the 190's incredible (best of any plane) roll rate to rotate your lift vector for instantaneous changes in direction.  The 190's dont climb that well sustained, but are among the best zoom-climbers with a head of steam.  Use this, along with your roll rate to fight in the vertical rather than sustained horizontal turns.  A zoom climb with a 180 degree roll at the top and a reverse back down will score you a lot of kills (this also works great in the 109K-4 BTW).

Defensively, if you've gotten yourself into trouble and have air under you, a defensive spiral or a straight dive will often get you clear.  Not many planes will hang with you at 600 mph.  If your stuck on the deck with someone saddled-up, then a flat or rolling scissors are your best bets.  Unless the opponent knows what he's doing, you can often force an overshoot or bring it to a nose to nose fight where you can get a high forward deflection.

Good luck.  The 190 is an awsome plane once you learn to fly it.
 

[bacon8tr]

Excellent advice...

I really like the 190's, and wish I were much better in them.  A5 especially.

Practice, practice, practice.  I am no where near a great stick, but I do fairly well in the A5. I love that bird.  Took me a solid year to learn it.  I'm still learning something knew everytime I take it up.  I love stall fighting with an A5, as that big rudder is a huge advantage.  Your going to take your lumps early on in the A5/A8. Just stick with it, as she is well worth the time and effort.

[Debrody]

190s are not for dogfighting (turnfighting), unless you really know what you are doing. Pony, P38, Jug, maybe even the Mossie can be beaten in close combat though, but if you decide to stay and fight, keep your flaps opened and stay uphill. Really thats all.

I liked the Dora the most but the A-5 is a fancy bird too.

[TWC_Angel]

 amazing  addvice on the butchher birds in this thread. i agree with almost all the points in these write ups. asides 2 things. A5 take the extr3a 20's i know..crap ballistics and low ammo but! that added weight does little to nothing against your roll and the single burst kiilll capability is no joke. My only other disagreement is in the fuel. I always burn aft first. a heavy nose is ideal and if your smooth on the controls the birds handle jusst fine.  i did run forwards ftank first a few times and imo the 190A series felt wrong. preference thing im sure.       
<S> All!

[Rogue9Volt]

Practice, practice, practice.  I am no where near a great stick, but I do fairly well in the A5. I love that bird.  Took me a solid year to learn it.  I'm still learning something knew everytime I take it up.  I love stall fighting with an A5, as that big rudder is a huge advantage.  Your going to take your lumps early on in the A5/A8. Just stick with it, as she is well worth the time and effort.

That's the plan... The 190 works pretty well with my current crappy stick setup.  (I.E. Rudder and flaps via keyboard/Throttle on the stick)  I plan to replace my setup soon though.  Maybe that'll help.  I've been flying the Dora a lot in the MA, along with the F8 for Jabo.  In the DA I've been trying my luck with the A5, and having lots of fun.

[LCADolby]

boo and Angel are top 190 guys. I agree on Angels fuel tank burn, add that to the post by boo.

[save]

The A8 is only good up to 21k then its engine performance start to suck.

As a pure buff-killer with 2*30mm 2*20mm and 2*13mm the A8 can kill most buffs in a slashing attack.
As a fighter 4*20mm 2*13mm gives you the punch to kill any fighter in a snapshot
With 2*20mm you can climb better, can turn marginally better,  but dont use it as a turn-fighter below 300mph.
A5 is the best dog-fighter
Dora is one of the fastest plane on the deck and climb good.
TA152 is meant to be flow at 20k plus and is a good buff killer. below 17k Dora is a better fighter.

[Ninthmessiah]

How do you fight in each class of 190 s...

HO everything.  Don't bother with ACM.

[W]hich one is the best for the dog fight...

The one that HOs the best.

[mthrockmor]

Mr West Texas Messiah got me to thinking....

The 190A8 has an awesome weapons package and for the noob just tool'n through the hangar would likely see that as a potential ho'bird. Of course, this brings absolute shame to the Butcher Bird Mafia community. Maybe those of us that prefer the smell of a well oiled 190 should hold a weekly or bi-weekly Butcher Bird flight school in the DA or TA. Anyone else think this a good idea and would help?

boo

[Debrody]

HO everything.  Don't bother with ACM.

The one that HOs the best.

Seriously i would like to slap you for that.

[Rogue9Volt]

Mr West Texas Messiah got me to thinking....

The 190A8 has an awesome weapons package and for the noob just tool'n through the hangar would likely see that as a potential ho'bird. Of course, this brings absolute shame to the Butcher Bird Mafia community. Maybe those of us that prefer the smell of a well oiled 190 should hold a weekly or bi-weekly Butcher Bird flight school in the DA or TA. Anyone else think this a good idea and would help?

boo

You're ringin' my bell, Boo!
I would come to every meeting, learn all that I could, and would be willing to teach once I'm proficient...  Just please hold it at or after ten pm Est? 
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