P-51A NO CANNONS

[Karnak]

  Karnak, I never said anything other than I see no reason to not include the 4 cannon 51,perk it or whatever it makes no difference to me. That doesnt change the fact that I see no reason to not include it!

  I'd rather see the beau first,a 109G with a highblown engine would be fine also and likely the game could use these first but.... see above.



   

Your quip about the Beaufighter seemed to indicate that you thought it was the four cannon that were the problem.

[morfiend]

Your quip about the Beaufighter seemed to indicate that you thought it was the four cannon that were the problem.

  Sorry for the confussion,I dont think the cannons matter at all,I would just enjoy reading all the whines that would result if HTC added this plane,fuel for the fire so to speak.

    I really dont have an agenda with what planes are added or not,to me they are all the same,2 wings and a prop,well there are those hairdryers,some just do some things better than others.

  Whenever a player askes me what they should fly I always say the same thing,fly whatever you like or want to,some will be easier to fly than others and some may be difficult to find success in.   Then I say try a spit it's a pretty good beginners plane but there are many others that are good to start in  also.

  To me it's about having fun,I sometimes enjoy the comedy on the BBS,I thought a 4 cannon 51 might generate some of that.......



   

[Sunka]

Just what the game needs, more Mustangs.  

Just more variants would not mean more pony's,how many hogs and spits and yaks and 109's and jugs do we have.
 And this version i think would add to more fighting and less running.

+1

[bustr]

It might go the way of the initial days after the CHog was introduced. The MA became Hog HO city. And it's not all that fast unless you put it in a dive.

[Chalenge]

Four cannons is not the issue.  Four cannons on an aircraft for which the vast majority did not have cannons at all but because the four cannons are available in AH it completely dominates  the usage for that aircraft is the problem that the P-51A and A-20G have.

I really do wish you would learn your aircraft better. The P-51A never had cannons. The P-51 (no variant designation) had four 20mm.

Another error in this thread concerns speed. Someone said the P-51A would be slower (or hinted at it). It won't be slower.

And everyone seems to forget that it would still be a P-51 (paper radiator) and likely it would lose in any HO whether it had 20mm or not. Adding cannon would only even the gun platforms a little, and it would be easier to fly in tighter circles. It most certainly would not become the ruler of the arena. A F4U-4 would not be faster but it would turn better, as would many, many other aircraft. Besides, if you have not learned how to avoid a HO then you need to go back to training.

[bustr]

The British did not get all of these NA-91s. Since the RAF deliveries took place after Pearl Harbor, many were repossessed by the Army before they reached England. Out of 150 produced, only 93 ended up going to the RAF, with 55 being retained by the USAAF and two being devoted to the XP-78 (XP-51B) project. These included RAF Mustang IA serials FD418/FD437, FD450/FD464, FD466/FD469, and FD510/FD527.

Contrary to some reports, the Army planes still retained the 20-mm cannon of the RAF version, but were fitted with two K-24 oblique cameras mounted behind the pilot in the fuselage. These were designated as tactical reconnaissance aircraft and were designated F-6A, but this designation was soon changed to P-51. Some sources say that the F-6As had an additional downward-pointing fuselage camera munted between the tailwheel bay and the radiator exit flap, with the two cameras mounted behind the pilot being common to both designations.

The Army planes were delivered directly from NAA and were all finished in OD/Neutral Gray camouflage. The P-51s went to Peterson Field in Colorado, where they were assigned to the newly-established aerial reconnaissance school. In March of 1943, a batch of 25 F-6A/P-51s were assigned to the 154th Observation Squadron at Oujda in French Morocco. This was the first US Mustang unit. The first mission was a photographic coverage of Kairouan airfield in Tunisia on April 10, 1943, which was the first USAAF Mustang mission of the war. No. 225 Squadron of the RAF frequently borrowed Mustangs from the 154th to augment its shorter- range Spitfires. The F-6A/P-51 was quite successful in operation, but it did have one important defect--it bore a similar shape to that of the Messerschmitt Bf 109. The 154th's first combat loss was a friendly fire incident in which Allied AAA failed to recognize the differences, with fatal results.

Two P-51 airframes were diverted to the XP-78 project, about which much more will be said later!


Sources:


1. American Combat Planes, Ray Wagner, Third Enlarged Edition, Doubleday, 1982.


2. The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books, 1987.


3. War Planes of the Second World War, Fighters, Volume Four, William Green, Doubleday 1964.


4. United States Military Aircraft since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian, 1989.


5. Fighting Mustang: The Chronicle of the P-51, William N. Hess, Doubleday, 1970.


6. Classic Warplanes: North American P-51 Mustang, Bill Gunston, Gallery Books, 1990.


7. Famous Fighters of the Second World War, Volume I, William Green, 1967.


8. British Military Aircraft Serials, 1912-1969, Bruce Robertson, Ian Allen, 1969.


9. E-mail from Michael Vorrasi on P-51/F-6As being equipped with 20mm cannon and not 0.50-inch machine guns.

[bozon]

And everyone seems to forget that it would still be a P-51 (paper radiator) and likely it would lose in any HO whether it had 20mm or not. Adding cannon would only even the gun platforms a little, and it would be easier to fly in tighter circles.

What you are forgetting is that it will be a P-51, thus a guaranteed place in the top-10 used planes. Anything with 4 cannons, let alone hispanos, can get easy kills. Would anyone even know the N1K existed in the game if it was armed with 6*0.5s? The combination of cannons and a P-51 name tag will make its popularity rival that of the D pony. The only saving grace of the D pony may be that it is a better bomb truck, or if the cannons on the A pony were the drum fed 60 RPG ones (were they?).

Not that it should not be added, but it may needs to be perked and in any case, I see it very low on the priority list.

[Megalodon]

What you are forgetting is that it will be a P-51, thus a guaranteed place in the top-10 used planes. Anything with 4 cannons, let alone hispanos, can get easy kills. Would anyone even know the N1K existed in the game if it was armed with 6*0.5s? The combination of cannons and a P-51 name tag will make its popularity rival that of the D pony. The only saving grace of the D pony may be that it is a better bomb truck, or if the cannons on the A pony were the drum fed 60 RPG ones (were they?).

Not that it should not be added, but it may needs to be perked and in any case, I see it very low on the priority list.

 I think a re-vamp of the P-51 model line would only be a good thing, as you say its the attractant, more of them will attract more folks ...right?
 The 51 model is missing at least 3 versions and could be fleshed out to 4-5 models no problem.

 

[BnZs]

I don`t see why an early Pony of some kind should be low on the priority list in an arena that the TA-152, P-47M, and Me-163.

What you are forgetting is that it will be a P-51, thus a guaranteed place in the top-10 used planes. Anything with 4 cannons, let alone hispanos, can get easy kills. Would anyone even know the N1K existed in the game if it was armed with 6*0.5s? The combination of cannons and a P-51 name tag will make its popularity rival that of the D pony. The only saving grace of the D pony may be that it is a better bomb truck, or if the cannons on the A pony were the drum fed 60 RPG ones (were they?).

Not that it should not be added, but it may needs to be perked and in any case, I see it very low on the priority list.

[Sunka]

I don`t see why an early Pony of some kind should be low on the priority list in an arena that the TA-152, P-47M, and Me-163.

People that get killed by it to much, tend to complain i find.

[BnZs]

People that get killed by it to much, tend to complain i find.

People don't complain about getting killed by P-51s, I personally murder more Ponys than any other plane. They complain about the facts there are lots of them...oh well.

[save]

A lower ENY Ki84 with 4 cannons would please me

[Megalodon]

I don`t see why an early Pony of some kind should be low on the priority list in an arena that the TA-152, P-47M, and Me-163.

TA-152H-1 and B-239............. Ar-234?, P-47M, Me-163? and F4U-C
    under 46 club                                  under 201 club



On topic the Na-99, P-51A had an order of 1200.... only 300 were made.  

More of the Na-73/83, P-51/Mk1 600 were made. 4x30-4x50 version

The Na-91, P-51/MK1a 160 or so were made. 20mm version

The Na-97, A36 around 500 made.  4 or 6x50, 2x500lbs, dive flaps ...Attack version.


The P-51A had a bit more horsepower and kept the hard points of the A-36 with only 4x50....  basically what we have already in the 51B

Give us all of the Mustangs,

 

[bustr]

They all got used in the war. The P51\F-6A was the first to be used in a combat theater of the P51 family.

[Tank-Ace]

Megalodon, screwing up in the past doesn't justify screwing up again. P-51A with free cannons is still just a retard move.