GMC general mess of crap help

[CAP1]

Heh, Google has been running self driving vehicles in California for years already. Computerized cars are actually not necessarily bad at all for the DIY guy. You just need to get an OBD II reader and compatible software, the car will inform you what is wrong much better than the old 'listen and wiggle' type of analysis would tell you.

Many people are intimidated by the electronics and the plastic covers of engines without realizing that by removing the plastic and plugging your laptop to the car, things can be still as simple as ever. The only real complication comes if the car computer itself is the one with problems. That can send you and your mechanic to an expensive wild goose chase. I've heard horror stories of stealerships replacing part after part, chasing the false error messages from a broken car computer or error messages generated by a simple flat battery.

 it won't send a good mechanic on a wild goose chase.
 i just had a mercury with a bad puter last month. it took less than an hour to figure out. i do know guys that would do what you've typed above though.

[Slate]

May I ask if you work for a dealership?

   I currently work for a Dealership for over ten years. Cap1 and others are correct in some respects about dealers but it happens at the private shops also. It does come down to the skills of the individual Mechanic. We have 3 long time Techs that have very few problems with Vehicles and most are repaired the first time in. Many Mechanics struggle with Electrical Wiring that requires a very organised approach. We have cars that have come from other dealers and private shop because they could not figure them out.
   Warranty jobs pay less now and good dealer Techs have been pushed out to private shops where they can make more cash. Everyone has horror stories of Dealers and Private Shops alike. Finding a good Mechanic is like finding a good Doctor and we both get many questions at parties. 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

it won't send a good mechanic on a wild goose chase.
 i just had a mercury with a bad puter last month. it took less than an hour to figure out. i do know guys that would do what you've typed above though.

I've read many stories from MB, BMW etc forums where stealerships have trusted the error messages blindly and got on a part replacement frenzy without fixing the real problem. On some occasions it has cost the car owner multiple thousands and of course they refund nothing once they figure out their mistake.

[icepac]

Good techs. are leaving dealerships because they get the tough diagnosis jobs.

The bean counters will stack a shop full of unqualified technicians who can't be bothered to up thier game beyond slapping together brake jobs and services and the dealerships pay these guys less per turned hour.

The few competent technicians at dealerships are firmly entrenched in thier careers as team leaders or diagnostic specialists which shields them from the consequences of turning low hours per month......because they do the tough jobs.

There can only be a few of these guys and you can't break into that niche when joining a dealership because they will figure out your skills at diagnosis and you will be put on jobs that begat less labor hours and have unqualified lube techs turning more hours than you on easy stuff.


If you are a mechanic applying to a dealership, best to keep your mouth shut on your skills and simply say you have no diagnostic skills.

[CAP1]

   I currently work for a Dealership for over ten years. Cap1 and others are correct in some respects about dealers but it happens at the private shops also. It does come down to the skills of the individual Mechanic. We have 3 long time Techs that have very few problems with Vehicles and most are repaired the first time in. Many Mechanics struggle with Electrical Wiring that requires a very organised approach. We have cars that have come from other dealers and private shop because they could not figure them out.
   Warranty jobs pay less now and good dealer Techs have been pushed out to private shops where they can make more cash. Everyone has horror stories of Dealers and Private Shops alike. Finding a good Mechanic is like finding a good Doctor and we both get many questions at parties. 

 i should add a couple things about dealers........slate...you may even know these guys.

 i've had very rare occasion that i couldn't find information on diag. procedures for a ford. there's a guy that works at echelon ford, that i've called a couple of times. he was more than generous with his time to help me out with it every time i called him.
 i had a viper truck(srt-10 ram 1500). it came in with the pressure hose blown off of the power steering pump. it's really a weird/stupid setup. the power steering system drives the cooling fan. my initial diag, was that the fitting had worn, and allowed the hose to blow out. replaced, and it came back in a week. now i'm looking deeper. i checked the rack, pump, and other hoses for restrictions and could find none. i couldn't find specific diag for the cooling fan. i called the guys down at performance dodge. once again, those guys spent WAY more time helping me out than i could've expected. and it was actually a bad cooling fan, for almost $1100.
 

[homersipes]

well I took my truck to my buddies house started with the grounds.  chased all the grounds all good and tight, so I started it up and commenced to wiggling all the wires, there is a box on the fire wall that has 2 connectors to it, touched one of them and ding, kicked into REP.  So we pulled the plug apart, and found no broken wires or anything, plugged it back in strted it back up and wiggled it again, couldnt get it to do it again after shaking the crap out of every wire in the ENTIRE engine compartment so I am thinking it was a fluke deal.  Then we pulled the top of the fuse box off and started looking where the wires go into the bottom of the box.  Found a HUGE mouse nest under there and 3 wires that were chewed on, so we cut the chewed spot out and soldered and used heat shrink tubing to repair, so I am hoping  that this was the problem.

[ReVo]

   I currently work for a Dealership for over ten years. Cap1 and others are correct in some respects about dealers but it happens at the private shops also. It does come down to the skills of the individual Mechanic. We have 3 long time Techs that have very few problems with Vehicles and most are repaired the first time in. Many Mechanics struggle with Electrical Wiring that requires a very organised approach. We have cars that have come from other dealers and private shop because they could not figure them out.
   Warranty jobs pay less now and good dealer Techs have been pushed out to private shops where they can make more cash. Everyone has horror stories of Dealers and Private Shops alike. Finding a good Mechanic is like finding a good Doctor and we both get many questions at parties. 

I'm not a professional mechanic, but I know enough to get myself in trouble. (And sometimes even out of it  ) But I have had to deal with dealerships for family members over warranty repairs for two different cars, from two different manufacturers now. I was wondering if you knew why they try so damn hard to keep me away from the mechanic who is actually working on the vehicle? In the case of the first it was a simple bad ball joint/tie rod on a vehicle with well under 20k miles. It took four trips to get them to actually fix the damn thing, and in the end it was exactly what I told them it was. I was also amused that my explanation of the problem to their "Customer Service Rep" was changed to "Noise heard in front end of car."

[guncrasher]

Heh, Google has been running self driving vehicles in California for years already. Computerized cars are actually not necessarily bad at all for the DIY guy. You just need to get an OBD II reader and compatible software, the car will inform you what is wrong much better than the old 'listen and wiggle' type of analysis would tell you.

Many people are intimidated by the electronics and the plastic covers of engines without realizing that by removing the plastic and plugging your laptop to the car, things can be still as simple as ever. The only real complication comes if the car computer itself is the one with problems. That can send you and your mechanic to an expensive wild goose chase. I've heard horror stories of stealerships replacing part after part, chasing the false error messages from a broken car computer or error messages generated by a simple flat battery.

I live in california.  I have yet to see any of these vehicles.  they're probably only at google property, which is not the same as "in california" implying on the freeways.  at the mill plant where I work we have these trucks that self drive, since the leaders inside are mostly asleep.


semp

[CAP1]

well I took my truck to my buddies house started with the grounds.  chased all the grounds all good and tight, so I started it up and commenced to wiggling all the wires, there is a box on the fire wall that has 2 connectors to it, touched one of them and ding, kicked into REP.  So we pulled the plug apart, and found no broken wires or anything, plugged it back in strted it back up and wiggled it again, couldnt get it to do it again after shaking the crap out of every wire in the ENTIRE engine compartment so I am thinking it was a fluke deal.  Then we pulled the top of the fuse box off and started looking where the wires go into the bottom of the box.  Found a HUGE mouse nest under there and 3 wires that were chewed on, so we cut the chewed spot out and soldered and used heat shrink tubing to repair, so I am hoping   that this was the problem.

 was that box on the drivers side of the firewall? any chance you can take a picture of it? if it's what i think, it's the throttle actuator control module. if the wires are absolutely not broken inside of the insulation, there's a couple other possibilities.


1) easiest, cheapest, and simplest.......possible corrosion on the electric contacts inside the connector. take the plug off again, and look for a whitish or greenish powdery substance. if you see either, clean em up.(be sure to check both the harness side, and the unit side)
2) while the connector's disconnected, examine the electric contacts inside the connector closely. it's not unheard of for them to actually spread out a bit, thus giving you a poor contact, even when the connector is firmly plugged in. once again, examine both sides.
3) if all of this is good, the TAC module may be bad. it's fairly common on these. this of course is the most expensive possibility. the good news though, is that by duplicating the problem with wire wiggling at that firewall module, you've eliminated the throttle body assembly as the culprit.

 ::EDIT::
was it #1 in this picture?

[homersipes]

yes it was #1 in the pic, and  connector #2 was the one that I touched.  the connector looked fine no corrosion inside, but it does seem pretty loose on the connection, sloppy fitting I mean.  But like I said we shook the crap out of it after we got all the wires fixed and never got it to kick into REP again.  I pulled on each wire going into it about 4 inches from plug with the truck running as well.  and under #3 was where the nest was, was a green wire with a white stripe, a light green wire, and a pink wire that was chewed on, little bastages   we didnt take it off the firewall, will do that tomorrow night and check both connections on it.

[CAP1]

yes it was #1 in the pic, and  connector #2 was the one that I touched.  the connector looked fine no corrosion inside, but it does seem pretty loose on the connection, sloppy fitting I mean.  But like I said we shook the crap out of it after we got all the wires fixed and never got it to kick into REP again.  I pulled on each wire going into it about 4 inches from plug with the truck running as well.  and under #3 was where the nest was, was a green wire with a white stripe, a light green wire, and a pink wire that was chewed on, little bastages   we didnt take it off the firewall, will do that tomorrow night and check both connections on it.

  you're taking your time checking the wires, right? sometimes just pulling on them won't show a break inside the insulation. you need to kind of bend it around in between your finger and thumb. if you've got any calluses, it could be hard to feel.

 also....chewed wires......they've been repaired? properly, or with crimp connectors?

[homersipes]

  ya some black tape wrapped around them, that properly fixed right?  yeah we cut the chewed out, soldered in new section of wire with same gauge and used shrink tubing over the splices.  Okay will recheck all wires, bending them around my finger, did not know that    I did notice there are about 3 wires in that plug that are kinked pretty good right where it bends and goes into the pin part, maybe pull each wire out 1 at a time and check?  Like I said I have never had to deal with internally broken wires in a vehicle before, deal with it a lot at work in water wells, but thats a easy as an ohm reading on the pump from well head, if no continuity, pump has to be pulled and wires checked for continuity blah blah blah, but this kinda bam bozzles me

[CAP1]

ya some black tape wrapped around them, that properly fixed right?  yeah we cut the chewed out, soldered in new section of wire with same gauge and used shrink tubing over the splices.  Okay will recheck all wires, bending them around my finger, did not know that    I did notice there are about 3 wires in that plug that are kinked pretty good right where it bends and goes into the pin part, maybe pull each wire out 1 at a time and check?  Like I said I have never had to deal with internally broken wires in a vehicle before, deal with it a lot at work in water wells, but thats a easy as an ohm reading on the pump from well head, if no continuity, pump has to be pulled and wires checked for continuity blah blah blah, but this kinda bam bozzles me

 tape? 

 soldering, you did em right.

 with the bending, don't go nuts....just kinda bend em in between your finger/thumb so ya can feel them. sometimes, you can just squeeze them too. as dumb as it's gonna sound, it's an acquired feel to find them this way.

 pulling them out of the connector won't work too well for ya. you'd need a way to release the lock tabs inside the connector.

[homersipes]

are those the same as other connectors?  I have used a tiny screw driver and slid it in behind the terminal and that usually releases the pins, well atleast on servos for rc stuff.  hahaha yeah black tape has its place but not in fixing wires.  I hate working on stuff that has tape all over it, gets all sticky and messy once the adhesive releases.   rewired n entire 75 gmc because of this, and the floorboards consisted of license plates, roofing tar, and tons of self tapper screws    I bet there was 50 license plates in the floor of that truck.  when the wife gets home going to go back over the wires with a fine tooth comb