Author Topic: Words simply fail me  (Read 2337 times)

Offline Shifty

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9377
      • 307th FS
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2014, 10:05:09 PM »
That is one tough as nails son you've got there, Shifty.  :aok

Thanks he's just one of the many I got to witness. They're all over the place. Some of them got to return to duty and are back out there now.
I can't help but think of all the guys that fought and bled in Vietnam and didnt get any of the recognition this generation of warriors has recieved.
Again that is why these pictures anger me so. Nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes, but that uniform means something. When you
put it on you're representing all before you and that will come after you. If you have to do something stupid and we all do at times.. Don't do it in
uniform.

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

"Haji may have blown my legs off but I'm still a stud"~ SPC Thomas Vandeventer Delta1/5 1st CAV

Offline Puma44

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6757
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2014, 10:12:45 PM »
Thanks he's just one of the many I got to witness. They're all over the place. Some of them got to return to duty and are back out there now.
I can't help but think of all the guys that fought and bled in Vietnam and didnt get any of the recognition this generation of warriors has recieved.
Again that is why these pictures anger me so. Nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes, but that uniform means something. When you
put it on you're representing all before you and that will come after you. If you have to do something stupid and we all do at times.. Don't do it in
uniform.

Roger that, Chief!  You are spot on.  Put the uniform on and you represent thousands who defined honor before and after your time.   :salute



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9418
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2014, 12:00:56 AM »
That is one tough as nails son you've got there, Shifty. 


He takes after his father.  Glad to hear he's doing well, dude, say "congrats" for me.

- oldman

Offline BluBerry

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1937
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2014, 01:10:22 AM »
hilbly dove into the ground and started to dig.

 demore v kim is about a legal resident committing a crime and being deported.  however up until he was deported (as it should have been for anybody that commits a crime) his constitutional rights were protected.  including his right to a trial, right to an attorney... his constitutional rights were protected all the way to the supreme court.

so please do point out which of kim's rights were not protected under the constitution?

your personal opinion that the constitution protects god given rights is just that, your personal opinion.  you are entitled to it under the constitution.  just like under the constitution I am entitled to tell you that you are wrong.


semp








Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2014, 08:10:09 PM »
hilbly dove into the ground and started to dig.

 demore v kim is about a legal resident committing a crime and being deported.  however up until he was deported (as it should have been for anybody that commits a crime) his constitutional rights were protected.  including his right to a trial, right to an attorney... his constitutional rights were protected all the way to the supreme court.

so please do point out which of kim's rights were not protected under the constitution?

your personal opinion that the constitution protects god given rights is just that, your personal opinion.  you are entitled to it under the constitution.  just like under the constitution I am entitled to tell you that you are wrong.


semp



The Rights protected under the Constitution are the rights the colonies believed every free man should have.  The constitution is an attempt by man to "legalize" those rights.  And, btw, the first ten amendments are known as the Bill of Rights, not the constitution.  The Declaration of Independence started the process...to understand one, you must understand the other.

As defined by noted by the Constitutional Rights Foundation and the primary document used to forge the Constitution. 

"The members of the Continental Congress made only two minor changes in the opening paragraphs of Jefferson's draft declaration. In these two paragraphs, Jefferson developed some key ideas: "all men are created equal," "inalienable rights," "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Where did Jefferson get these ideas?

Jefferson was a man of the Enlightenment. This was the period during the 17th and 18th centuries when thinkers turned to reason and science to explain both the physical universe and human behavior. Those like Jefferson thought that by discovering the "laws of nature" humanity could be improved.

Jefferson did not invent the ideas that he used to justify the American Revolution. He himself said that he had adopted the "harmonizing sentiments of the day." These ideas were, so to speak, "in the air" at the time.

As a man of the Enlightenment, Jefferson was well acquainted with British history and political philosophy. He also had read the statements of independence drafted by Virginia and other colonies as well as the writings of fellow revolutionaries like Tom Paine and George Mason. In composing the declaration, Jefferson followed the format of the English Declaration of Rights, written after the Glorious Revolution of 1689.

Most scholars today believe that Jefferson derived the most famous ideas in the Declaration of Independence from the writings of English philosopher John Locke. Locke wrote his Second Treatise of Government in 1689 at the time of England's Glorious Revolution, which overthrew the rule of James II.

Locke wrote that all individuals are equal in the sense that they are born with certain "inalienable" natural rights. That is, rights that are God-given and can never be taken or even given away. Among these fundamental natural rights, Locke said, are "life, liberty, and property."

Locke believed that the most basic human law of nature is the preservation of mankind. To serve that purpose, he reasoned, individuals have both a right and a duty to preserve their own lives. Murderers, however, forfeit their right to life since they act outside the law of reason.

Locke also argued that individuals should be free to make choices about how to conduct their own lives as long as they do not interfere with the liberty of others. Locke therefore believed liberty should be far-reaching.

By "property," Locke meant more than land and goods that could be sold, given away, or even confiscated by the government under certain circumstances. Property also referred to ownership of one's self, which included a right to personal well being. Jefferson, however, substituted the phrase, "pursuit of happiness," which Locke and others had used to describe freedom of opportunity as well as the duty to help those in want.

The purpose of government, Locke wrote, is to secure and protect the God-given inalienable natural rights of the people. For their part, the people must obey the laws of their rulers. Thus, a sort of contract exists between the rulers and the ruled. But, Locke concluded, if a government persecutes its people with "a long train of abuses" over an extended period, the people have the right to resist that government, alter or abolish it, and create a new political system.

Jefferson adopted John Locke's theory of natural rights to provide a reason for revolution. He then went on to offer proof that revolution was necessary in 1776 to end King George's tyranny over the colonists."

Semp, its ok if you're an atheist but man defined freedom by what they believed at the time to be inalienable rights God gives every man
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 08:11:45 PM by Changeup »
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2014, 08:54:47 PM »

Semp, its ok if you're an atheist but man defined freedom by what they believed at the time to be inalienable rights God gives every man


I am not an atheist.

but the main point was to question hilbly's idea that constitutional rights only apply to U.S. citizens.  anybody that is the united states is entitled to most constitutional rights and some to all (citizens born or naturalized).  be it a citizen, legal resident, visitor or illegal alien.  like it or not, that's how it is.

like you yourself mentioned "all men are created equal" and thus are protected under the constitution unless specifically excluded from it.  whether they deserve to live in the united states, well that's a different story. 

semp


you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2014, 11:35:42 PM »


like you yourself mentioned "all men are created equal" and thus are protected under the constitution unless specifically excluded from it.  whether they deserve to live in the united states, well that's a different story. 

semp




And I was pointing out that men are born free (God if you will) and governments, despots, etc take their freedoms away. 

You said God didn't give freedom, the Constitution did.  The way I see it, God gave men freedoms and the constitution protects those freedoms.  Big difference.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline LCADolby

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2014, 01:51:48 AM »
True freedom is known as anarchy.
JG5 "Eismeer"
YouTube+Twitch - 20Dolby10


"BE a man and shoot me in the back" - pez

Offline ReVo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 775
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2014, 06:46:39 AM »
i've seen dumber stunts but that was back before the retardnet and social stupidity. it's a clear sign of the times, a lot of poor decisions and choices being displayed for all the world to see.

People have been doing the same stupid things for the same stupid reasons since the dawn of time. The only difference is that now everybody and their mother carries a cell phone equipped with internet access and a video camera. These things aren't new, you're just seeing them for the first time.
XO Jagdgeschwader 53 'Pik As'

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2014, 08:25:23 AM »
True freedom is known as anarchy.

Anarchy is for children acting out...unskilled orators who believe in some rebellious nobility.  It's ignorance.

"There is no greater evil than anarchy"

Sophocles
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2014, 08:26:11 AM »
People have been doing the same stupid things for the same stupid reasons since the dawn of time. The only difference is that now everybody and their mother carries a cell phone equipped with internet access and a video camera. These things aren't new, you're just seeing them for the first time.

Yes this^^^^^^^^^
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13920
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2014, 12:19:57 PM »
Mere presence in the country is not all that is required to exercise the rights of the citizens. Voting is the easiest one to point out that is a right not granted to a person wh merely inhabits the interior boundaries of the country. Most rights are accorded to noncitizens however as long as they comply with the rules and law of the land including immigation.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2014, 12:26:56 PM »
And I was pointing out that men are born free (God if you will) and governments, despots, etc take their freedoms away. 

You said God didn't give freedom, the Constitution did.  The way I see it, God gave men freedoms and the constitution protects those freedoms.  Big difference.

perhaps it's a difference of opinion.  I can think of several freedoms that god gives you that arent guaranteed by the constitution.  for example "rest on the sabbath".  if i refuse to work on the sabbath as I have the right to do, I will get fired because no law in the constitution protects me.

so all the freedoms (and obligations) that I have are only those guaranteed by the constitution.  do you give 10% of your earnings?  the law coming from above says you must.  but the constitution doesnt say you do.  so a lot of us just contribute as we wish.

anyway we can argue for years about this and that and the only agreement we will come up with is that you believe in the constitution your way and I on my way.  but the only way that really matters is the way the supreme court interprets it.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Words simply fail me
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2014, 03:00:18 PM »
perhaps it's a difference of opinion.  I can think of several freedoms that god gives you that arent guaranteed by the constitution.  for example "rest on the sabbath".  if i refuse to work on the sabbath as I have the right to do, I will get fired because no law in the constitution protects me.

so all the freedoms (and obligations) that I have are only those guaranteed by the constitution.  do you give 10% of your earnings?  the law coming from above says you must.  but the constitution doesnt say you do.  so a lot of us just contribute as we wish.

anyway we can argue for years about this and that and the only agreement we will come up with is that you believe in the constitution your way and I on my way.  but the only way that really matters is the way the supreme court interprets it.

semp


1.  You are FREE to quit that job to find one that will allow you to take the sabbath off.
2.  You are FREE to tithe your 10% or NOT to tithe your 10% (that isn't a freedom, that's a biblical law anyway)
3.  I believe exactly like you believe regarding the constitution.  I simply believe itprotect the rights you should already have.  It doesn't give you any new ones except due process. 

Hell, there is a law on the books in MS that specifically says you must face your partner during sex.  That isn't a violation of any of your constitutional rights is it?  Well, yes it is depending on how your lawyer defines  "Blessings of Liberty" and the illegal search and seizure laws, lmao!
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba