For you current and former Police Officers...

[Volron]

What is your take on this situation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNLAgJCBjt0

[Krupinski]

That`s sad and extremely unfortunate... You must be some kinda sociopath to not feel horrible after such an incident....

[Widewing]

That`s sad and extremely unfortunate... You must be some kinda sociopath to not feel horrible after such an incident....

Heart breaking situation for the old man and the officer.

That said, our society is entirely too paranoid, including the police. Too many innocent folks are being shot by cops who are almost conditioned to over-react. A 13 year-old shot in the back by a cop who mistook a toy rifle for a real firearm. A 25 year-old shot on his way home from an airsoft park, because the cop saw a toy MP-5 on the backseat of his car. A 40 year-old woman shot because she took her cell phone out of her pocket. Too many cops are entirely too wired... My brother is a Deputy Sheriff, and he tells me that many of his fellows are completely paranoid and over-react. Usually, he said, it's those who pass on voluntary training. He hits Hogan's Alley and simulated combat as often as possible. Keeps him sharp and gives him the confidence not to panic when exposed to real and imagined situations.

[Widewing]

Also, what bothered me most was not the officer who panicked. The officer telling him that, "you did what you had to do" repeatedly annoyed me very much. The fact is that he didn't have to shoot, he did so out of panic. I would argue that he was insufficiently trained.

Sure, the old fella should have stayed in his truck, but getting out with one's cane should not be a death sentence, should it?

[Gemini]

Too many innocent folks are being shot by cops

...

 A 13 year-old shot in the back by a cop who mistook a toy rifle for a real firearm. A 25 year-old shot on his way home from an airsoft park, because the cop saw a toy MP-5 on the backseat of his car. A 40 year-old woman shot because she took her cell phone out of her pocket.

This.

And remember those two asian ladies who had their car shot up by the police during the hunt for that Dorner guy? Absolute madness.

Too many dangerous idiots being given a gun & a badge ;(

[Dichotomy]

Also, what bothered me most was not the officer who panicked. The officer telling him that, "you did what you had to do" repeatedly annoyed me very much. The fact is that he didn't have to shoot, he did so out of panic. I would argue that he was insufficiently trained.

Sure, the old fella should have stayed in his truck, but getting out with one's cane should not be a death sentence, should it?

as always you, sir, are the calm voice of reason. 

[MiloMorai]

As I said in another thread, cops are lousy shooters. Good thing in this case as the man is expected to recover.

[SmokinLoon]

It is certainly a tragic event.  Tragic all the way around.      

I understand how the officer mistook the cane for a gun.  There are all kinds of discussion points that could be had from this encounter.  Thousands of them.  

Having been a volunteer law enforcement over 8 years now, I've seen a lot of bad things and witnessed many more things that were a slit second from going the same way that very encounter happened.  It isn't fun.

Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20.  If it were to have been me in that scenario I would like to think I'd have not fired so quickly, but again I can see how the officer would have thought the driver grabbed a shotgun instead of a cane.  With my training and experience I'd probably have drawn, started closing the gap, and be hollering commands for him to XYZ.  But again, hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20.  I doubt I would have fired that quickly and that many times, I'm much more of a "aim, squeeze, shoot, repeat" kind of guy.  I don't go for the rapid fire crap being taught at the academies.    

Some things the younger guys need to be taught is that 40+ years ago it would almost SOP for drivers to get out of their cars, at least here in rural midwest.  Heck, when I was in high school in the late 80's I got out of my car when pulled over by LEO's and never one was scolded back in to the car.  Now, it is standard that the drivers stay in their car.  Period.  Unless called back.  It is "for their safety", and "officer safety", too.  This older timer got out of his car, newer/younger COP saw it as a challenge (probably. He was taught that). The old timer reached in to the back of his truck and pulled out when appeared to be a long arm, when in fact it was a cane to help him walk back and meet the COP half way like he had done 40 years ago, etc.

I will not fault the COP.  I am not giving him a free ride, but having been in his shoes enough times I understand the predicament.  I will not fault the driver, he did nothing wrong.  This is just a horrible thing.

 

[SmokinLoon]

As I said in another thread, cops are lousy shooters. Good thing in this case as the man is expected to recover.

and be careful with over-generalizing. Not all "cops are lousy shooters". It has more to do with the sudden adrenaline rush than the lack of ability. I bet if I would to stand 5 yards to your right and shot spitwads at you while you're shooting for groups you'd shoot half your rounds off paper.  Understood?

[ink]

wow.

[smoe]

This is not good for any1.

[Shamus]

Yup, in the olden days you got out of your car and walked back to the squad car, especially if it was raining, a sign of respect. Now if you don't have your hands on the wheel you might get popped.

shamus   

[Masherbrum]

Heart breaking situation for the old man and the officer.

That said, our society is entirely too paranoid, including the police. Too many innocent folks are being shot by cops who are almost conditioned to over-react. A 13 year-old shot in the back by a cop who mistook a toy rifle for a real firearm. A 25 year-old shot on his way home from an airsoft park, because the cop saw a toy MP-5 on the backseat of his car. A 40 year-old woman shot because she took her cell phone out of her pocket. Too many cops are entirely too wired... My brother is a Deputy Sheriff, and he tells me that many of his fellows are completely paranoid and over-react. Usually, he said, it's those who pass on voluntary training. He hits Hogan's Alley and simulated combat as often as possible. Keeps him sharp and gives him the confidence not to panic when exposed to real and imagined situations.

This and your other post. 

[Megalodon]

See Rule #4

[Widewing]

I watched the video again...

In my opinion, the officer never gave the old man an opportunity to do anything he was asked to do. He opened fire just 2.7 seconds after he uttered his first word to the old man. Even if the old man understood what the cop was saying, it certainly would have required several more seconds to comply.

This is what happens when the cop was:
1) Poorly trained
2) Overly paranoid and frightened.
3) Unable to use reasoning skills under stress

Finally, his shots were all over the place, some striking the truck several feet from the old fella. He emptied his pistol in less than 4 seconds. Everything he did was out of being panicked.

That, my friends is due to inadequate training.

And yes, most cops are not very skilled with their handgun. That's because most cops are not into firearms and shooting sports. Our local police department requires that the officers qualify annually with their service pistol. 50 rounds fired at paper at 7 yards. I could train Stevie Wonder to hit a person 21 feet in front of him.

Being properly trained means developing muscle memory, and to do that, you have to shoot often. Very often. Training is what overcomes the loss of fine motor skills when adrenalin is flowing. Slow, deliberate fire defeats panicked spraying every time. A couple of years ago, three NYPD cops opened fire on a armed felon on a public sidewalk. They fired 44 rounds, and scored two superficial hits on the skell. They also wounded two bystanders, shot out three storefront windows and damaged two parked cars. A fiasco, at best. Why did they perform so badly? They were mentally and physically unprepared for a gunfight. Most NYPD officers couldn't hit their backside with a chair.