Why can AH planes climb when missing a wing by bank ing 90.....

[FLS]

How do you think the torque and spins should be different? I'm not clear on what you're describing.

What do you mean by rudder-stall? I don't know that term.

[BnZs]

I don't understand what you think is wrong with it. Isn't it just a different slower way to get over the top? Don't we see it in airshows?

It is not the fact of a hammerhead being performed in the game. I'm skeptical more the ability to enter, leave, and control the nose in hammerheads and other moves involving yaw rotation to a seemingly F-22esque extent. In real ACM they tend to say that every fight that goes long enough ends up in the rolling scissors, whereas in AHII such fights end up in a move series so uncommon I don't know the proper name for it. Everything you get from outside ACM sources like Shaw makes sense and works in AHII right until you get to that point...

[Brooke]

AH fights are exactly how my fights at Air Combat USA went -- where the guys were about equal, they ended up in stallfights on the "deck", not rolling scissors.

[BnZs]

AH fights are exactly how my fights at Air Combat USA went -- where the guys were about equal, they ended up in stallfights on the "deck", not rolling scissors.

That falls into the 90% of fights being realistic I was talking about earlier. But with sticks at a certain level, Batfink for instance you will ALWAYS run into what I'm talking about. If you fly well enough to actually wind up on their tail in the first place during an equal duel, they will use a pullup in combination with killing energy, followed by a hammerhead rotation. They WILL get a shot coming back down. Hit or miss, you will end up on the defensive unless you can also pull up and begin utilizing the same sort of maneuvers. The fight will hinge on snapshots taken as you exchange positions in this hammerhead series, and as I say, in my observation this is where almost every duel between high-level pilots eventually goes.

One also runs into some pilots who aren't particularly great at anything but these sort of maneuvers, indicating that god-level flying ability isn't required to use the FM in this way.

One incident of this sort I remember is being 200 yards behind and slightly to the right of a Corsair, both of us being very low and slow, while flying an FM2. Both of us were level turning by this point. The Corsair  rotates while very near flat almost 180 degrees to the right to face me, does not shoot me in the face in the spirit of good sportsmanship I suppose, flies under me, and the fight continues

[danny76]

I shot down Batfink......once


Think he was AFK

[FLS]

It is not the fact of a hammerhead being performed in the game. I'm skeptical more the ability to enter, leave, and control the nose in hammerheads and other moves involving yaw rotation to a seemingly F-22esque extent. In real ACM they tend to say that every fight that goes long enough ends up in the rolling scissors, whereas in AHII such fights end up in a move series so uncommon I don't know the proper name for it. Everything you get from outside ACM sources like Shaw makes sense and works in AHII right until you get to that point...

In airshows we see throttle controlling the nose in stalls. Not in the vintage aircraft of course.   

Most WW2 fighters were very aerobatic and the loads aren't great when stalled at the top of a zoom climb. They didn't perform like current aerobatic aircraft but remember the account of Candelaria stall spinning his P-51 and getting a kill. We may do more of it but we didn't invent it.

[colmbo]

So, would you guys say that these stall behaviors are unrealistic?  I doubt that these stall behaviors match most people's real-life flying.

See footage starting at 6:37 in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWwI6gZw67g

And this one from start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag5ut3tP3ZM

No,not at all.   The Mossie accident was an engine failure at a very bad time and what was probably Vmc roll so kind of apples and oranges, he recovered but didn't have room to pull out. 


But did  you notice that when the aircraft stalled the nose dropped through the horizon. In game the 152, Mossie and Spit 14 are 3 of the top of my head that will set "stalled" but nose above the horizon as they descend with very low IAS.  I've done stalls in Cessnas, Pipers, T-6, P-51 and B-17.  Each and every time when the stall breaks the nose drops.  The heavy end is going to point toward the dirt, the feather end is going to trail behind.

[pervert]

To me it's not natural, because all the planes I flew have a significant 'break' when you enter a deep stall, with the nose significantly and abruptly droping even while you have no control response.

You can do this in game, I do this with a d9, one of the big problems I always had with the d9 was a fast nose up down transition, something I learnt in WW1 is fast up down transitions equate to angles, I use very slight jabs of virtually no throttle to make it happen and viola the nose swings. A D7 in the WW1 arena will do exactly as you described very easily. Even if you end up stuck at the top spinning on the prop the nose will swing down? It could be your just not getting the plane slow enough in game?

In the MA some of the F4Us and even Jugs I have seen me following them up and the nose swinging straight down and me getting a faceful its not that uncommon.

[pervert]

It is not the fact of a hammerhead being performed in the game. I'm skeptical more the ability to enter, leave, and control the nose in hammerheads and other moves involving yaw rotation to a seemingly F-22esque extent. In real ACM they tend to say that every fight that goes long enough ends up in the rolling scissors, whereas in AHII such fights end up in a move series so uncommon I don't know the proper name for it. Everything you get from outside ACM sources like Shaw makes sense and works in AHII right until you get to that point...

Every fight that goes long enough ends in a luftberry fight on the deck, the ground and threat of guns will dictate that rolling scissors will get flatter and flatter until the guy in guns has to resort to a flat turn, his only other options are getting shot or hitting the ground.

[Vinkman]

Thanks Hitech,  Very informative. I always learn something in threads like this. 

[SFRT - Frenchy]

You can do this in game, I do this with a d9, one of the big problems I always had with the d9 was a fast nose up down transition, something I learnt in WW1 is fast up down transitions equate to angles, I use very slight jabs of virtually no throttle to make it happen and viola the nose swings. A D7 in the WW1 arena will do exactly as you described very easily. Even if you end up stuck at the top spinning on the prop the nose will swing down? It could be your just not getting the plane slow enough in game?

In the MA some of the F4Us and even Jugs I have seen me following them up and the nose swinging straight down and me getting a faceful its not that uncommon.

I don't think that's what it is Pervert, the speed gets down into the 0 to 50 range and yet like you, I have to assle the throttle and get all crazy with the rudder to get the 'nose' to 'break'. Granteed some planes just do that worse than others.