Ready for the P-47D15-23 series

[Seadog36]

Actually, much more than half of all Thunderbolts were razorbacks, and around half off all types were wing hardpoint razorbacks. I do remember the D-30 in the game. The D-30 was the single most produced bubble top variant, so they had that right until they opted for the rarer D25 and D40s.

Another example is in the case of the P-51B to which the gave it these goofy looking infield modification of the Malcolm hood, because players wanted better visibility over the stock and IMHO better looking birdcage canopy. They overrepresented the bubble top 47s for the same reason.

There is no need to drop the D-25, many are skinned as D-28, D-30 etc. Just add a D15-23, all the data and flies already exist and more than half the skins are for late models anyway. My favorite example which illustrates this is the D-11 57th FG skin which is OD with bare metal wings which should have pylons on them. The MTO based 57th FG were pioneers in P-47 ground attack and an earlier variant was field fitted with new wings.

[Karnak]

Per Pyro AH never had a P-47D-30.  It had a P-47D-40 that was mislabeled as a P-47D-30.

[bozon]

no need to immediately eliminate the D25 from the game. It is enough that HTC decides to stop development on it and the next time that graphics/flight models are updated would be a good time to drop it.

Even tough the D25 is my most used model I much prefer a late razorback over it.

[FLS]

Why does anyone think the D25 has to be removed? Is there no room in the hanger?

I remember the blue nosed jug. Wilbus got caught flying it once. 

[Randy1]

What is the weight difference between the current D11 and the wished for P-47D15-23 series?

[Xavier]

Yes, more planes means more fun. A +1 on this one!

But before adding it, I'd go for non-american planes first. They are already very well represented, with carrier fighters, ground attackers, fighters, dive bombers, light, medium and heavy bombers.

Russian bombers, anyone? Pe-2? More than 11.000 units built! Or what about german bombers? The He-177 would give us an axis heavy bomber, which is quite nice if I do say so myself  .  Don't trust me on this one but I think that the new terrain will carry a new flow of players, which means cash, which means new planes and candy for all.

[/rant]

[Seadog36]

What is the weight difference between the current D11 and the wished for P-47D15-23 series?

Randy, the current D11 model only has a single belly hardpoint, all models of 47s after the D-15 were factory installed with underwing pylons, primarily for fuel as it became obvious P-47s lacked needed range in both the Pacific and European theaters. The older models, including the D-11 and earlier were field modified with new wings and hardpoints to extent their range. In addition Curtiss developed a wider chord, larger diameter propeller "know as the paddle propeller" which significantly improved climb performance and speed. These were also retrofitted to earlier models as well.

Nearly half of all 15,000 P47s were the factory produced improved D15-D23 Razorbacks, and with the upgraded earlier models they were the most common variant which saw service to the very end of the war in every major arena. This thread is an effort to shed light on that and bring Razorback prevalence and capability into AHII where it belongs. Most US top aces in the ETO got the bulk of their kills flying Razorbacks~ Gabreski Johnson etc and they had an excellent track record in the Pacific for aerial kills as well with Kearby, Dunham and others. They were the backbone US jabo fighter and as you know the D-11 can only carry a single 500lber.

Many of us feel (with the exception of the loud and vocal perma-dissenters like Karnak) it is very worth the effort to upgrade the P-47 plane set to reflect this, all the digital files exist and compared to developing a new type of aircraft, it should be fairly simple.

[Karnak]

What does the P-47D-23 offer than the P-47D-25 does not?

To date all that you have said is that it is the same, but a razorback, which means it only offers a graphical difference, which while nice, is hardly enough justification to add it when there are actual performance gaps in other lines of aircraft.

If adding it actually filled a gap I'd be all in favor of it, but it does not seem to fill any such gap.

[-ammo-]

I'll have to look through my books for the hard numbers but I have read several 56th pilot's books/memoirs and some have stated the razorback was more stable and less forgiving than the "super bolt".  I'll spend some time this weekend to see if I can dig up some hard numbers; if for nothing else than to answer Randy's question.

[Karnak]

I'll have to look through my books for the hard numbers but I have read several 56th pilot's books memoirs and several have stated the razorback was more stable and less forgiving than the "super bolt".  I'll spend some time this weekend to see if I can dig up some hard numbers; if for nothing else than to answer Randy's question.

I'd expect that there would be a slight handling difference based on the razorback, but not something most players would notice.  Certainly nothing like the performance differences of the Bf109G-6/AS as compared to the Bf109G-6 or Bf109G-14 or the Seafire Mk III as compared to the Seafire Mk II.

[LilMak]

What does the P-47D-23 offer than the P-47D-25 does not?

To date all that you have said is that it is the same, but a razorback, which means it only offers a graphical difference, which while nice, is hardly enough justification to add it when there are actual performance gaps in other lines of aircraft.

If adding it actually filled a gap I'd be all in favor of it, but it does not seem to fill any such gap.

The razorback should accelerate marginally better and be more stable in the yaw. It's a cleaner airframe than the Bubble top Jugs. Dorsal fins were added to late model Jugs to correct some of the yaw instability.

Last I checked, you didn't solely control which aircraft get added or when. What the OP is asking for isn't unreasonable and shouldn't take a tremendous amount of work. The "gap" it fills is the most widely produced model of the most widely produced American fighter of the war. While you might consider it a waste of resources, there are others who consider it to be just the opposite.

[Xavier]

Many of us feel (with the exception of the loud and vocal perma-dissenters like Karnak) it is very worth the effort to upgrade the P-47 plane set to reflect this, all the digital files exist and compared to developing a new type of aircraft, it should be fairly simple.

What would it add to the game? We already have 5 different variants of the P-47. I don't think we should be adding more american birds, but upgrading existing models which need it (A-20G, TMB, etc) and adding planes from countries who are underrepresented.

AHII Planes by Country:

Japan             11
Italy               2
USSR              9
UK                 17
Germany         21
USA               35


See what I mean? It's not about liking or disliking an airplane. It's about making an useful planeset and adding something to the game. What would another hog add, besides a new ride for P-47 fans?

[-ammo-]

I am not denying I am a P-47 fan.  My opinion leans that way - no doubt about it.  I also know little about the AC and agree with Seadog that it should be added for the reasons already stated.  I said as much to HiTech when I visited the HTC office last December.

[LilMak]

AHII Planes by Country:

Japan             11
Italy               2
USSR              9
UK                 17
Germany         21
USA               35


See what I mean? It's not about liking or disliking an airplane. It's about making an useful planeset and adding something to the game. What would another hog add, besides a new ride for P-47 fans?

Considering the US, by itself, produced over 100% more aircraft than any country on that list I could argue there is plenty of room for more American aircraft and variants.

[Xavier]

Considering the US, by itself, produced over 100% more aircraft than any country on that list I could argue there is plenty of room for more American aircraft and variants.

So we're going by production numbers? Well, you're absolutely right on that, and I don't really know which criteria does HiTech use when adding a plane. If more planes built = more representation in the game, another P-47 is the way to go  .

But! I personally think that HiTech's efforts would be better spent on modelling aircraft which can give us new experiences in all the arenas. But then again, a new P-47 would mean just that for a lot of players, so it's arguably a matter of personal preference. In my case, I'd rather see some new mediums/heavies, but that's because it's what I like to fly. If the options are no new planes or a new hog, I'm all in for the 47!