Ready for the P-47D15-23 series

[-ammo-]

I'm agreeing with him, and I'm willing to bet *most* of the community would agree with us as well.

Your statement is intuitive -  don't you agree?  You are agreeing that a late model Razorback is not a priority for anyone not a P-47 enthusiast , but what is it you want to see?  You are the minority from the community in your case just as seadog, myself, bozon, etc are a minority in the same sense.

Name the AC that the majority of the AH customer base wants - please.  You have an entire library of wishlist posts to sift through and nail that answer down.

[Karnak]

Priority is of course, subjective to the individual.  And who is "we're"; mouse in your pocket?  "We're" can be applied to the proponents of the D21/23 as well.

We want what we want and lobby all the same.  

I would love to see you back in the MA where you can enjoy this sim.

"We're" was specifically referring to the posters in this thread saying the P-47D-23 shouldn't be a priority.

[-ammo-]

"We're" was specifically referring to the posters in this thread saying the P-47D-23 shouldn't be a priority.

"We're" in consideration of Seadog's argument in this thread refers to those that believe the P-47D-23 should be a priority.  Start your thread and I will respond accordingly.

[Karnak]

"We're" in consideration of Seadog's argument in this thread refers to those that believe the P-47D-23 should be a priority.  Start your thread and I will respond accordingly.

All threads are open for discussion.  You made a statement that I was trying to speak for the majority of AH players which is not something I was doing by the use the the "we're" term.  I just wanted to make that clear.  I'd not presume to speak for the community as a whole.

[-ammo-]

All threads are open for discussion. 

Roger that

[Tank-Ace]

Let's be honest Ammo, the D-23 is as needed as the 109E7. To say otherwise is simply a blatant lie.

Hell, the E7 is more needed, given that it represents a change in performance over the E4, and was widely used in North Afrika, and Barbarossa.


What's next Ammo, demanding a remodeled jug because the seat is the wrong shade of gray?

[-ammo-]

Let's be honest Ammo, the D-23 is as needed as the 109E7. To say otherwise is simply a blatant lie.

Hell, the E7 is more needed, given that it represents a change in performance over the E4, and was widely used in North Afrika, and Barbarossa.


What's next Ammo, demanding a remodeled jug because the seat is the wrong shade of gray?

When you say "let's be honest", do you really think I am going to agree with you?  These discussions do not include absolutes and are entirely argumentative -  so don't go stating it's a lie to disagree with you.  Shame, shame, shame on you. And yes, the seat is the wrong color.

Why do you care about the inclusion of a D23?  It's just another target for you anyway (unlike karnak who doesn't log in).

[bozon]

That can be said of many other units that would also fill significant gaps.

Nobody, so far as I know, is saying the D-21 or D-23 shouldn't be added, we're just saying it is a pretty low priority on the scale of things.

I'm not really saying anything new. I just keep this argument alive because a long threat at the top of the wish list cannot be a bad thing for those who like the wish
D23 has been wished for long before we had the N and M models. I recall such discussions since AH1. We've been wishing for 10+ years, its not like I expect this to happen tomorrow.

(between us, I'd trade any hypothetical P47D23 for a hypothetical mossie XVIII, or F.30 , but I'd still wish for a D23 after that...)

[Tank-Ace]

When you say "let's be honest", do you really think I am going to agree with you?  These discussions do not include absolutes and are entirely argumentative -  so don't go stating it's a lie to disagree with you.  Shame, shame, shame on you. And yes, the seat is the wrong color.

Why do you care about the inclusion of a D23?  It's just another target for you anyway (unlike karnak who doesn't log in).

No, it's a lie. You want it for aesthetic reasons, not because it performs any different, would be flown any different, or would BE any different than the D25.

The Germans in particular deal with a LOT of compromises in terms of performance, far greater than the canopy used, and yet you think that your D23 is important enough to come ahead of all that?


I care because it's in my, and everyone else's, interest to see a lot of stuff added before this boondoggle.

[-ammo-]

No, it's a lie. You want it for aesthetic reasons, not because it performs any different, would be flown any different, or would BE any different than the D25.

The Germans in particular deal with a LOT of compromises in terms of performance, far greater than the canopy used, and yet you think that your D23 is important enough to come ahead of all that?


I care because it's in my, and everyone else's, interest to see a lot of stuff added before this boondoggle.

[BuckShot]

 -1

we already have 5 47s.

Should it be added someday? Yes

Should it be added before at least 6 or seven other planes? No

[Seadog36]

The dissenters all seem to agree that the D-25 is the wrong 47 variant based on HTCs own criteria, and that the D-21/23 would me a more appropriate, historically correct type. The objection is that it should come before a whole series of newly developed aircraft, of which the Beaufighter is the only one with any consensus.
I would really be interested in seeing any proposals of easy fixes for existing variants that have better legs to stand on than the one proposed in this thread. Feel free to post any ideas with commensurate references and production numbers in a new thread. I'm sure you'll be heckled to death by the same naysayers with different agendas, including those among the D-21/23 lobbyists.

So far the we should expect a great thread explaining why the 109F-7 is so pressing.

[Karnak]

The dissenters all seem to agree that the D-25 is the wrong 47 variant based on HTCs own criteria, and that the D-21/23 would me a more appropriate, historically correct type.

Yes, but the D-25 is already here which makes the question moot.

The objection is that it should come before a whole series of newly developed aircraft, of which the Beaufighter is the only one with any consensus.

I don't think most people are saying that.  I recognize work load to add something as relevant.  Bang for your buck so to speak.  I can't speak for others though.

I would really be interested in seeing any proposals of easy fixes for existing variants that have better legs to stand on than the one proposed in this thread. Feel free to post any ideas with commensurate references and production numbers in a new thread. I'm sure you'll be heckled to death by the same naysayers with different agendas, including those among the D-21/23 lobbyists.

So far the we should expect a great thread explaining why the 109F-7 is so pressing.

Bf109G-6/AS would be at the top of my list.  No 3D model changes needed as far as I know.  It would have better high altitude performance and a 30mm cannon option that would make USAAF 8th Air Force vs the Luftwaffe settings much more competitive for the Germans without having to use the October 1944 Bf109K-4 in setting earlier than it ought to appear.

The Seafire Mk III could be done simply with a new flight model and putting the Spitfire Mk IX's four bladded prop on the Seafire Mk II's 3D model.  It would offer significantly improved performance and it was the main production Seafire with 1200 built.  The last fighter vs fighter dogfight of WWII was Seafire Mk IIIs vs A6M5s.

Those would be the two variants I'd focus on, but there are other options as well.  The problem with the D-21 or D-23 is that they offer relatively little in the way of performance differences while still taking some work on the 3D models and skins.  It doesn't seem like there is as much bang for the buck with them.

[Tank-Ace]

Increase 190A5 ata from 1.43 to 1.49 to represent the majority of A-5 models.

Add bombs to the 190F-8, which requires no new visualizations to be created, and simply requires adding the existing ETC 503 bomb rack onto the wings and enabling 2 250kg bombs on the wings, add the 1000kg bomb to the center line.


Remove 800lbs of weight from the A8, as most models did not have the added armor (and armor seems not to be modeled in AH anyway)


All easy fixes providing actual performance differences than your D-23, and making the model more representative of history.




On top of that, there's also the gaping holes in the German bomber set, our sorely needed G-6 or G-14/As, the Ki-44, Italian SM-79, the H8K, the Beaufighter, the Yak-1, and Lagg-3, Seafire III, the Vickers Wellington, Pe-2. All would add far far more than D-23 would to the game, and all deserve a much higher spot on the priority list, given that the D-23's performance can be not only approximated, but PERFECTLY MATCHED by the D-25.

[Xavier]

So far the we should expect a great thread explaining why the 109F-7 is so pressing.

But there's no thread about the 109 or another similar case. Why? Because a new airplane is more important than another version of an already existing aircraft. Simple as that!