Radical Idea About HOing

[hcrana]

Trouble with head-ons is that they screw up the smoothing code.  The second biggest complaint is the whole "why-is-it-a-collision-on-my-FE-and-not-his" snivel.  Network latency is a stone squeak.

[Scca]

My Radical Idea About HOing is to avoid them, and turn them into a reversal   

Nothing like ending up 400 off the HO'ers 6 and    Their HO is frequently followed by them 

[Hoplite]

Sorry mate I missed your posts there. 

No worries!  At least I know some others agree with my assessment and approach! 

Oh, and I should have said I stated something similar a few days ago, not a few weeks ago. 

[Randy1]

My Radical Idea About HOing is to avoid them, . . .

But some times you just can't.  If I can't get separation because the guy has the E and plane advantage while diving in on me I will give him all eight 50s.   Damn stupid if I don't.  I could squeal that the other guy was the initiator of the HO but I don't know what lead him to that point.  HOs happen.

Should you plan on a HO?  Of course not.  Should we all be all be working on skills to avoid HO? Yes.

I can't think of a single winner of a HO that has complained.  It is only the loser.

 Don't forget it takes two for a HO.

HO is like ack hugging, it is blown way up out of context  and often with a flair of superiority.  Nothing wrong with ack hugging either.

[diaster]

But some times you just can't.  If I can't get separation because the guy has the E and plane advantage while diving in on ....
HO is like ack hugging...  Nothing wrong with ack hugging either.

Funny the guys with altitude, e and sometimes numbers give grief because at a disadvantage people hug the ack to gain some protection. People also run to ack cause the con is 800 out and there is no more room or skill to reverse him.... I guess we should just fly slow and straight and just let them shoot us down.. yeah that's the way to do it.

[Tilt]

So now the expectation changes, instead of expecting NOT to get HOed out of the anticipation of sporting behaviour we expect TO GET HOed every time.

Anyone who considers this a change in expectation has basically been playing in denial of the MA gameplay reality.

[Copprhed]

You have snatched the pebbles from my hand my friend.

Student makes humble bow....while hiding evil grin 
  nrshida! I wouldn't still be here if it weren't for your patience and tutelage!

[Squire]

HOing is used much more often than say in a real life situation because your life isn't really on the line and for that reason its commonplace in virtual arena play sims where death just means having to re-roll. Not going to change unless there was a real down side to being shot down yourself. Same as suicide base and CV strafers, level-dive-bombers, bailing bombers, ect.

Damn the torpedos. Why not?...if you sink just hit the "H" button and you get a new boat.

[Hoplite]

But some times you just can't.

True.  In some situations (e.g. on the deck, many-on-one furball) it may be impossible to dodge or reverse every HO. 

Sadly, life isn't fair.  AH MA combat reflects that sad fact.

If you want fair play, everyone must fly the same plane, at the same alt, at the same speed, and must fire only under certain conditions. 

Sounds like a duel to me. 

We have an arena for that too!

I can think of nothing more boring than 300 to 400 players squaring up in 1 on 1s, all flying the same plane, doing nothing but merges all the time. Every day. 

Part of the challenge and fun of the MA is the diversity and unpredictablilty of the combat environment.  Will the next red guy show up higher than me?  Will there be more than one?  Or will they be below me?  etc etc etc




Just sayin'!   

[Latrobe]

I think it's hilarious how some people hate HO shots so much that they'll claim anything from in front of the 3-9 line is a HO shot. Take a crossing shot on someone, "Hey! Nice HO from my 9 o'clock you Hotard!" 

Complaining about dying to a HO shot is the dumbest excuse I ever hear about. The HO shot is the EASIEST shot in ALL of aerial combat to avoid. You can literally maneuver in any direction and they will find it almost impossible to hit you (unless they have some god-like aim). The ONLY reason you die in a HO shot is simply because you decided to fly into his guns. Why? I do not know, but you really don't have anyone else to blame but yourself. If you don't want to get shot then DON'T fly into their guns!

I also hear the excuses of "Oh, but what if I'm fighting multiple bad guys and I'm turning to avoid someone and another one comes in from the direction I turn into? You CAN'T avoid that HO!"

Yes.... Yes you can! I know this because I do it all the time! Keep your SA up!!! Be aware of where all the enemy planes are at all times! If you see this one plane diving on your 6 for a shot and you turn to avoid him but end up going head on with a second enemy then you have failed SA. Be aware that there is a second plane coming at you from the direction you want to turn to avoid the first attacker and set up to either avoid BOTH planes with ONE move, or if that's not possible plan to string TWO moves together into ONE and avoid the first attacker then immediately avoid the second.

You can not complain and make excuses about dying in a HO shot. It is incredibly easy to avoid and the only way to get shot in a head on pass is if you intentionally go head on and put yourself in their guns!

[kappa]

I'm curious if they ever implement FPS play in this game, will the 'honorable' thing to do will be to stand out in the open, when you see the other guy wave at him or fire a warning shot in front of him to let him know you're there, then walk to cover and start fighting.  Would be about the same thing as whining about the HO.

Wiley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olm7xC-gBMY

[mechanic]

Excellent post Shida. This has been how I have viewed the HO for years now. Of course, at first I used to complain when I was ho'd, most of us did. But over time I learned the futility of such a complaint. I will now almost always just say 'nice shot' if I say anything at all. I have found two reactions most common to this method.

1: The enemy will say 'thank you'.

There are two subsections of players who will do this.

The first is someone who is new and does not know ho'ing is bad. These players deserve the right to HO with impunity. They will certainly not kill me any other way. The Ho is their best chance and I commend them on succeeding at it as I consider myself not an easy player to beat with a HO. New players deserve encouragement in any possible way. Over time they will most likely learn that taking the HO is a 50-50 chance and rather pointless. The key point there is 'over time'. If they are constantly castigated for how they kill there is much less chance that they will stick around long enough to learn.

The second group are those who know better but still choose to HO. These players are utterly beyond my help.


2: The enemy will say 'ah, that was a cheap shot, sorry'

This is more common.

The majority of players who say this would react very differently if I had complained about the HO. The majority of players would instantly argue back. It's a basic and obvious exercise in reverse psychology.



There are very few reactions that are not covered in those two.

And so, I support your fine post!

[lunatic1]

Over the years I've read countless threads about HOing and even participated in a few. There's hardly been a single session I've flown when someone or other isn't typing 'nice HO' or 'you Hoing b**tard' etc. None of these threads and not one of these complaints has ever put and end to HOing (note: we can't say it doesn't reduce it because the cultural pressure is continuous).

In Aces High it's almost become synomomous with swearing, it's not acceptable but there's an awful lot of it going about. I've seen more bitter complaints and more discord amongst players over the HO than any other aspect of gameplay, so a weird thought occured to me: what if we as a community stopped complaining about the HO and accepted it instead.

Now bear with me here. I'm suggesting we include and embrace the HO as part of acceptable fighting. I mean a shot from and into any aspect. No discussion of both or only one party having a shot, no debate over angles of deflection, simply give your oppoenent a guns solution - any solution - and get shot.

So now the expectation changes, instead of expecting NOT to get HOed out of the anticipation of sporting behaviour we expect TO GET HOed every time. Those that have been objecting to HOing on the grounds it is unskillful now have the responsibility to learn how to avoid it and can't complain if they get brought down. Thus this hole in the skill set of those who want a good, fair or skillful fight becomes filled.

Those that HO presently do not gain anything nor lose anything save the end of negative comments (which they apparently don't care about anyway).

For those that dislike getting HOed the burden of responsibility shifts onto temselves instead of expected behaviour from another player which I think we can all agree is only a recipe for dissapointment, annoyance and discord. In AH culture the HO is the only circumstance in a 1 on 1 fight where your safety is not your own responsibility but that of your opponent. This is illogical and unrealistic in the context of this combative virtual environment.


Employing the same 'persuasion by negative comments' approach which is demonstrably not working over and over year in, year out is the definition of futility. How about a paradigm shift instead?

+1  i'm with you 100%--- i try not to ho  but i just might not turn if the opponent doesen't turn...yes so lets just all quit complaining about the ho

[deadstikmac]

Learn to luv the ho and you will learn to luv yourself.... 

[Naughty]

  The only thing that needs to be said about HOing is...  It takes 2 to HO.