Cessna light attack jet

[Golfer]

What was that light trainer used in Africa and maybe Indo/Pako as a light CAS?

Any particular timeframe?

The Super Tucano is popular for that.

[Gman]

Golfer, you have a pile of time in similarly sized smaller biz jets like the Citation if memory serves - how hard/easy is it to train guys to fly and be able to drop bombs on targets do you think it is with these el-cheapo types of ideas?  Could they cut down on the most expensive part (training and pilots) a great deal compared to more complicated types like the F15/16 for just overwatch types of missions in non denied areas?

[Rich46yo]

Any particular timeframe?

The Super Tucano is popular for that.

While that names sounds super familiar Im thinking like South Africas bush wars in the '60s and '70s and maybe some middle Africa conflicts. I would say '60s and '70s would be the time frame.

[Rich46yo]

Ok one such I believe was the Hawk light attack/trainer but Im thinking theres another.

[Golfer]

Golfer, you have a pile of time in similarly sized smaller biz jets like the Citation if memory serves - how hard/easy is it to train guys to fly and be able to drop bombs on targets do you think it is with these el-cheapo types of ideas?  Could they cut down on the most expensive part (training and pilots) a great deal compared to more complicated types like the F15/16 for just overwatch types of missions in non denied areas?

Eagl would probably be a better person to ask but I would be shocked that the fundamentals of aerial bombing and strafing couldn't be taught and mastered on these and those principals transferred to a front line fighter airplane for less money than using the fighter to learn.

Frankly the millions if pounds of virtual ordnance I've dropped in AW and AH over the last 19 years I bet I could figure it out. I'd expect there's some sort of sinulation available to supplement in aircraft training but have no fires hand experience with USAF training.

I flew Citations for a brief while but left those 8 years ago.  I'm getting old...

[Golfer]

Ok one such I believe was the Hawk light attack/trainer but Im thinking theres another.

Gnat?

They were used with good results in Hot Shots.

[wpeters]

Eagl would probably be a better person to ask but I would be shocked that the fundamentals of aerial bombing and strafing couldn't be taught and mastered on these and those principals transferred to a front line fighter airplane for less money than using the fighter to learn.

Frankly the millions if pounds of virtual ordnance I've dropped in AW and AH over the last 19 years I bet I could figure it out. I'd expect there's some sort of sinulation available to supplement in aircraft training but have no fires hand experience with USAF training.

Good luck with that.  Try dropping bombs correctly in Dcs Warthog..   It is hard with the modern weapons

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Eagl would probably be a better person to ask but I would be shocked that the fundamentals of aerial bombing and strafing couldn't be taught and mastered on these and those principals transferred to a front line fighter airplane for less money than using the fighter to learn.

Frankly the millions if pounds of virtual ordnance I've dropped in AW and AH over the last 19 years I bet I could figure it out. I'd expect there's some sort of sinulation available to supplement in aircraft training but have no fires hand experience with USAF training.

I flew Citations for a brief while but left those 8 years ago.  I'm getting old...

Do you really think for a second that the virtual bombing in AH or AW relate in any imaginable way to a real bombing sortie? You wouldn't have a clue on how to actually bomb with a lancaster even if you flew AH with them for your whole life.

[Golfer]

Which isn't at all what I'm talking about.

We're talking about light attack airplanes and what amounts to glide bombing. And yes, if left to my own devices I'm saying I'd figure out how to take an airplane with ordnance under the wings and put the ordnance an acceptable distance from a stationary target on a range while not being shot at without too much fuss.

Glide bombing basically. A weapon selector, a pickle switch, a little bit of TLAR figurin' and a few times to try it out?  I'll get close.

[Swoop]

And besides, a Norden bomb site is a different kettle of fish to modern 'playstation' avionics.

[Puma44]

Good luck with that.  Try dropping bombs correctly in Dcs Warthog..   It is hard with the modern weapons

Actually, it's not IF properly trained on how to employ the weapons system.  The latest systems are designed for ease of use versus the old school "iron sights" of the early days which required manual adjustments for winds, dive angle, airspeed, etc variations.  

[Blinder]

The thing looks like the end result of a bad weekend in Vegas for a Hornet and a Skylane that both drank too much and didn't use a condom. 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Actually, it's not IF properly trained on how to employ the weapons system.  The latest systems are designed for ease of use versus the old school "iron sights" of the early days which required manual adjustments for winds, dive angle, airspeed, etc variations.  

Yep but the iron sights are easyer for the 'rtfm? Never!' people called average gamers.

[Puma44]

True.  It's a choice to either train and learn how to use the technology, or not.  TLAR is always a good fall back method. 

[Vulcan]

for "homeland security mission set"?