Ki-84 vs FM2

[Wiley]

except that the zekes are paper thin and burst into flames when you sneeze on them.....

I have found the ability to take a few rounds is far more important then "turning" a few feet faster.

In a furball, agreed, and the durability is a nice cushion to have.  I'll take an ounce of maneuverability over a pound of armor though.  If he can get guns onto you, IMO you've kind of lost.  I don't believe at all in giving them a poor shot that will connect.  I'm a huge believer in giving them a poor shot that just misses.

The way I fly, the only time I want or generally even notice durability of my plane is attacking buffs.

Wiley.

[ink]

In a furball, agreed, and the durability is a nice cushion to have.  I'll take an ounce of maneuverability over a pound of armor though.  If he can get guns onto you, IMO you've kind of lost.  I don't believe at all in giving them a poor shot that will connect.  I'm a huge believer in giving them a poor shot that just misses.

The way I fly, the only time I want or generally even notice durability of my plane is attacking buffs.

Wiley.

I am glad you said "the way I fly"

same as I said "I have found"

your play style is opposite of mine...

durability is far more important to me.

durability of the Ki has saved me many times when fighting multi cons....

[Muzzy]

It's not that the Zeke can out-turn the FM2, it's that the Zeke can also out-climb it. Unless you manage your energy very carefully, you will end up slow and below. The other planes in the set that out-turn the FM don't have it's engine power, so you can stay above them and pound them into submission.

[ink]

It's not that the Zeke can out-turn the FM2, it's that the Zeke can also out-climb it. Unless you manage your energy very carefully, you will end up slow and below. The other planes in the set that out-turn the FM don't have it's engine power, so you can stay above them and pound them into submission.

I can go on and on about how an FM2 will easily take on a zeke....(the high speed handling IE nose down fighting.....of the FM2 is just one way)

climb better then the FM2...fine...... but you certainly can not climb faster then the 50s in its wings.

the zeros (everyone of them) are weak planes that take a very little punishment....they burst into flames..way to easy to make them "formidable".

a good Fm2 driver will use that to his advantage...

hell any good stick will use that against the zero...

10 years I have been fighting in AH and never have I felt the zeros a threat...
they were my first planes I flew because they can turn so good.....that don't matter when most can nose down and run away....and 1 ping puts you aflame.

the only time the zekes are "dangerous" is when they have friends.

EDIT

ill say IMO so anybody who may get their panties bunched up for me talking smack about their plane....

[Muzzy]

Well, I'm no slouch in the FM 2 either, but co-alt, co-e, equal skill, a Zeke has distinct advantages. If I have alt over a zeke, it's dead. One on one, against a stick as good as me, it's a real challenge.

[ink]

Well, I'm no slouch in the FM 2 either, but co-alt, co-e, equal skill, a Zeke has distinct advantages. If I have alt over a zeke, it's dead. One on one, against a stick as good as me, it's a real challenge.

for sure....it does.....

I dont disagree with that....

but the FM2 has its own advantages and the good sticks know how to make use of those...

and the advantages of the zeke are not enough to compensate for the disadvantages.

its very rare you will find "equal pilots" "equal E" states in the MA (extremely rare actually)

I have a rare insight to cartoon dogfighting that most don't....yes even long term vets...(I am not saying I am the best by any means...but I know it takes the best to kill me....in a 1vs1)

my first 2 weeks playing AH with very little time in FA before...I was called a cheater...literally within my first 2 weeks....I have hundreds of cheater accusations since then....to me that is an indication of what I have accomplished in this silly game:-)


one of the rare guys that just took to it...

all I have done in AH since tour 52 is fly fighters....and fight against the numbers

I have maybe 30 sorties in things other then fighters....no joke..I have over 24,000 kills and 24,000+ of them are in fighters...

zero's are the least of my worries.....

as a matter of fact NO plane worries me....it is the stick that I am fighting NOT the plane....and then there is no "worry" for to me its all about the fight...and getting to be the best I can be.....and "I" can only get better by fighting those better then me.

when you are a noob the plane is far more important to your "winning" a fight then anything else....when the advantages and disadvantages are distinctly responsible for your winning or losing....

as you gain skills the plane becomes less important.... your ability to to judge the enemy E state.... your knowledge of ACM...the timing of ACM...is distinctly responsible for your winning or losing the fight.



holy crap wall O text.....

[BnZs]

I have found the ability to take a few rounds is far more important then "turning" a few feet faster.

I fly the Fm2 a lot, and this encounter happens a lot. It's not "a few feet faster", it's a very significant superiority in turn rate combined with superiority in power/weight ratio. There is really nothing the Fm2 can do unless the Zeke makes a gross mistake. And it has to be a *very* gross mistake, and they have to be dead before they use their combo of turn rate and climb to get out of it. Even HO'ing is iffy-those 20mm on the Zeke are no picnic.

[BnZs]

It's not that the Zeke can out-turn the FM2, it's that the Zeke can also out-climb it.

It IS that a Zeke can out turn an FM2. Per Mosq, the A6M5 has a sustained turn rate of 26.4dps compared to 22dps for the Fm2, along with a smaller radius. That's a huge rate of turn advantage.

[Muzzy]

I would also say that in my experience, there are very *few* zero pilots who are actually dangerous enough to worry about. Thoughts like that keep this wildcat pilot warm at night.  

[mthrockmor]

I concur with the other posts in the general theme of 'the vertical.'

What I've noticed with the 'turny birds' is that there is a tendency to take everything into the turn almost immediately. Stall fighting/vertical remains a big part of the match, since you are trading "e" for alt, which simply puts most of the "e" into the bank.

Also, in your defensive turn it strikes me that you didn't pull hard enough. You attempted rolling scissors, which is a great step for something like the 190, though the Ki-84 should be able to turn hard enough to force an overshoot of most birds, then roll.

[Gman]

I'd like to see some duels between some guys that are good like Ink is at 1v1, in both FM2 and Zero, and then have them switch planes and rinse wash repeat.  Shouldn't take longer than an hour, I know Ink and Latrobe live for this sort of stuff, and it would make a fantastic video for the help section for pilots of all skills and time.

GO ninja go ninja GO! (Vanilla Ice Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle rap for positive waves).

[ink]

I'd like to see some duels between some guys that are good like Ink is at 1v1, in both FM2 and Zero, and then have them switch planes and rinse wash repeat.  Shouldn't take longer than an hour, I know Ink and Latrobe live for this sort of stuff, and it would make a fantastic video for the help section for pilots of all skills and time.

GO ninja go ninja GO! (Vanilla Ice Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle rap for positive waves).

 

would be quite fun

[Ack-Ack]

As already mentioned by others, the Zeke pretty much holds all the cards versus a FM2 (and F4F-3) in a 1 on 1 engagement.  Historically, against the Zeke, the FM2 strengths were the use of team tactics and using those tactics could hold its own against and triumph over a Zeke.

ack-ack

[ink]

As already mentioned by others, the Zeke pretty much holds all the cards versus a FM2 (and F4F-3) in a 1 on 1 engagement.  Historically, against the Zeke, the FM2 strengths were the use of team tactics and using those tactics could hold its own against and triumph over a Zeke.

ack-ack

....I am not a "history buff" but from what I recall they were ordered to HO and stay fast....using the frailness of the zeros against them.....

"team tactics" is a given on ANY battle we were in.

[Karnak]

Ink,

The problem is that if the A6M5 gets the FM2 alone there aren't anymore team tactics to use and the FM2's advantages against the A6M5 are considerably weaker than the A6M5's advantages over the FM2 in a one on one.  Being tougher doesn't help if you can't avoid being shot and the enemy has more than enough firepower to destroy you.  Great guns don't help, and his frailty doesn't hurt him, if you can't get those guns on him.

I've spent a lot of time in A6Ms in AH and while it is certainly no Ki-84, it is still quite capable when flown well.