Author Topic: Kindergarten Lessons  (Read 21125 times)

Offline Lucifer

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #120 on: May 09, 2014, 05:46:23 AM »
Whatever some ppl say, i m playing AH for 6 months, i luv it the way it is, i'm gonna stay a very long time and i thank HTC/Skuzzy crew for what they did/are doing/will do for the game.

S!  :salute

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Offline Debrody

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #121 on: May 09, 2014, 06:17:53 AM »
See rule 4
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 07:26:04 AM by hitech »
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Offline SirNuke

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #122 on: May 09, 2014, 07:03:32 AM »
It looks like this thread about kindergarten lessons will in fact end with a kindergarten lesson   :)

Offline Pepprr

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #123 on: May 09, 2014, 07:25:25 AM »
No they don't.  I play in the IL-2 communities (all three games) and they are not like I see here at all.  They are much more civil.  Folks have their differences of opinion, but nothing like the whining, temper tantrums and snotty stuff I see here.  I don't play the arcade games like WarThunder or World of Tanks or fantasy games and maybe it's there, but this board goes into the ditch far more often and deeper than any other flight sim community I've seen.  AH is a great game with a lot of great folks playing it but the obnoxious few are hurting the game and the image of the game reflected here.

Halo46 shouldn't stop playing when the obnoxious few can be easily weeded out.  Might be the best advertising dollars Hitech has ever spent, that being the lost revenue from a little pruning.

Wow.  I can't believe a light hearted "birds sing in color" got ruled but things like this are allowed to stay. I love HTC and I love this game but this is clearly hatred of a group of people that is being allowed over an opinion that was given. Sure, they are very passionate about the game because they enjoy it and only want to see it prosper. None of their posts have been to this extent and it disheartens me to see that this kind of behavior is more acceptable.

I have flown with the Muppets for quite while now and have found them to be some of the nicest guys in the game.  They have treated me with respect and are a lot of fun to fly with. Over the past little while I have tried all I can to
help promote the game and tell people how good it is...now I wonder why.  I almost cancelled my account(s) when I read this, being targeted indirectly is how this comes across.  I hate to see that some want to "weed" out others that
have the same love for the game, believe it or not, I even want this guy to stay.  I have sat back and not said much about this whole thing.  I can see both sides of the situation and don't totally agree with either. Sure things got heated and probably dealt with the wrong way, on both sides.  Something that could have been put to rest so easily escalates into something that good players are talking about bailing over, some already have..pity.

I think I will stay, just because leaving would satisfy so many and I don't want to give them that satisfaction.  I hope others will do the same.  AND I hope that we can go back to just enjoying the game that we all love without all of the bs.

Have a nice day..  :)
 

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Offline Butcher

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #124 on: May 09, 2014, 08:17:09 AM »
I think I will stay, just because leaving would satisfy so many and I don't want to give them that satisfaction.  I hope others will do the same.  AND I hope that we can go back to just enjoying the game that we all love without all of the bs.

Have a nice day..  :)
 

This is the most sound advice I've seen in a long time :)
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Offline hitech

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #125 on: May 09, 2014, 09:51:14 AM »
Wow.  I can't believe a light hearted "birds sing in color" got ruled but things like this are allowed to stay. I love HTC and I love this game but this is clearly hatred of a group of people that is being allowed over an opinion that was given. Sure, they are very passionate about the game because they enjoy it and only want to see it prosper. None of their posts have been to this extent and it disheartens me to see that this kind of behavior is more acceptable.

I have flown with the Muppets for quite while now and have found them to be some of the nicest guys in the game.  They have treated me with respect and are a lot of fun to fly with. Over the past little while I have tried all I can to
help promote the game and tell people how good it is...now I wonder why.  I almost cancelled my account(s) when I read this, being targeted indirectly is how this comes across.  I hate to see that some want to "weed" out others that
have the same love for the game, believe it or not, I even want this guy to stay.  I have sat back and not said much about this whole thing.  I can see both sides of the situation and don't totally agree with either. Sure things got heated and probably dealt with the wrong way, on both sides.  Something that could have been put to rest so easily escalates into something that good players are talking about bailing over, some already have..pity.

I think I will stay, just because leaving would satisfy so many and I don't want to give them that satisfaction.  I hope others will do the same.  AND I hope that we can go back to just enjoying the game that we all love without all of the bs.

Have a nice day..  :)
 

Do you really not see the difference of posting on topic, and posting something with the intent of purposely breaking the rules with an off topic post? And change ups first post was even ignored by me knowing that part of it was simply letting off steam, but then a few hours later he does the exact same thing with a different statement? It is at that time I moderated them. Changups only intent was to "Ill show them that I will do what I want" in a way that he thought he could just push the edge and get away with it.

Such behavior  is what this thread is about in the first place.

As far as disliking the group, I never even heard of the AOP until a few weeks ago when they started putting the free hilbilly in there signatures and we had to tell them to remove the item.
Hilbly was removed for starting a web page whos only purpose was to disparage HTC. Well if he dislikes our policies that much, after we spent 1/2 hour on the phone with him, and do our best to explain our policies. And will not let the issue be settled, he really does not give us much choice.

Does this sound similar to the current avatars?

Then the same group after knowing that trying to protest something with your signature is not acceptable, attempted the same tactic with their avatars protesting the 12 hour rule. Those avatars spawned this thread in a hope that we would not have to confront them again directly telling them to take down the avatars.

It didn't work, or they chose to ignore this
Quote
We really do not wish to have to tell people to clean up signatures, or avatars.  Quite frankly, we feel like the teacher on the kindergarten school play ground when we have to.

People are free to posts complaints and wishes. But when they start using a "Bulling" / berating manner, start interjecting their desire/wish into many threads, they do not give us a choice but to deal with the behavior.

So I ask you a question.

Why do you think changeup made those two post in this thread?

HiTech


Offline kappa

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #126 on: May 09, 2014, 10:06:01 AM »
Its funny and silly to me that HTC could be so offended from an avatar with a 12 in it... You guys at HTC act no better, in this case, than the community at large.. Instead of flamming a dissenting opinion, you ban them.. Which is worse?
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Offline uptown

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #127 on: May 09, 2014, 10:09:14 AM »
Measure twice, cut once.......in other words, think twice, type once.  That advice has saved me from the ban hammer more than a few times  ;)
Lighten up Francis

Offline Arlo

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #128 on: May 09, 2014, 10:12:06 AM »
There's actually a difference between an online virtual squadron and a gang of wanna-be thugs (on or offline). There is room for improvement here (and apparently still opportunity).  :salute :cheers:

Offline hitech

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #129 on: May 09, 2014, 10:13:27 AM »
Its funny and silly to me that HTC could be so offended from an avatar with a 12 in it... You guys at HTC act no better, in this case, than the community at large.. Instead of flamming a dissenting opinion, you ban them.. Which is worse?

First I do not know any place where we have flamed anyone or any opinion. If we have please show me and I will apologize. I can show you many places where people accuse HTC of behavior like you are doing now, that we simply do not do.

It has nothing to do with a dissenting opinion. It is more akin to marching with a sign into a business saying you do not like something the company is doing, and then expect that they would not ask you to either get rid of the sign or leave. Again it is about behavior , not an opinion.

HiTech




Offline Iraqvet

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #130 on: May 09, 2014, 10:52:56 AM »
I think most forget that AH is a Business, HITECH and Skuzzy have every right to defend something they work on everyday.....simply so we all can enjoy the game we call AH. Most miss that as they get bogged down in the BBS complain grinder that goes on and on. 

There really is no need to even have an issue.
HTC provides a wish list thread for things such as the 12hr change and any other change/wish players would like to see in game, and they will either change it or they wont.  There really is no reason to come and post and repost threads with the intention that if I keep doing it mentality HTC will "HAVE" to change it. Much less the mentality of if HTC doesn't do as I wish I will quite game.

It is sad to see BBS leaning more and more as just a place to complain.

I would say this, Do you play AH? Do you enjoy playing it? If you answer yes to this then. Get at it and enjoy!!
If you get drawn into the "I can't play the game because of.......1......2......3 etc" Then you are missing all the great stuff that makes AH great as it is. :salute
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Offline Gman

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #131 on: May 09, 2014, 11:15:52 AM »
Quote
It has nothing to do with a dissenting opinion. It is more akin to marching with a sign into a business saying you do not like something the company is doing, and then expect that they would not ask you to either get rid of the sign or leave. Again it is about behavior , not an opinion.

I would agree with that, however what happens when that person marching in is a paying customer, and has a group of friends who agree with what's on the sign, and are paying customers as well?  Many companies will simply ignore such things, instead of coming out and crossing swords with them, which is what's been happening lately, and frankly, is a complete waste of your time Dale.  Nobody else can create what you've made, or else they would have done it in the last 15 years you've been around, so any time you spend on your bbs system dealing with this stuff is a complete waste of valuable time IMO.  

Even when you're right, sometimes it's better to just stand pat and do nothing, as opposed to coming out knife in hand.  I know HTC has often said it's a case of being caught between a rock and a hard place, damned if they do, damned if they don't.  I can understand how they feel that way, however in the case of a purely business perspective, would it not be better to come down on the side that doesn't get a bunch of customers, no matter what % of your business they are, angry and wound up over their fellow squadmates being banned from the bbs system over words, regardless of what they've said or who they've said it.  

What would have happened if HT and SKuzzy never posted or moderated that original 12 hour rule thread at all?  What would the net result be in terms of subscribers?  It's pretty much down to this IMO - would potential new players look at that thread and think, great, I see no bad words or arguing going on, this game must be fantastic! - versus a few dozen people now talking in private forums or through PM's about how p/o'd they are about a few people being PNG'd, regardless if it was "deserved" or not.  What was actually gained vs what has been lost, and could be lost?

I do know one thing as I first stated, just having this going on is a waste of HTC's time, and part of me wishes that other than the help section and a few other areas, the BBS would be just shut down, that or it just left to its own devices, without so much time and concern being poured into it by HTC.  It's obvious from the posts here from HT that this issue has him p/o'd, and he's well within his right to be so, but where is that getting anyone?  Sometimes customers, even the ones you think are wrong, no, especially those ones, have to be treated with kid gloves, and be told what they want to hear, even if you don't want to say it.  It's just a different school of thought from what I've observed vis a vis bbs interaction between HTC and a number of customers over the years.  I do know one thing - in the beginning years this never happened, not like it is happening now, I saw few if any customers leave over having bent feelings due to bbs bannings and suspensions.  Why is that, especially when the game cost 2x what it does now, and 3x for people outside the USA at the time due to the dollar?

There is a popular sentiment that it's HTC's house, they should be respected at all times, and anyone who doesn't abide by this should be shown the door.  This is an easy policy to agree with when you don't count on those players, even the ones being "disrespectful", to provide you with revenue.  If you have a customer call you every name in the book, tell you your product sucks, start other websites about you, go on Facebook ranting - is that a bad thing?  Any advertising, good or bad, is a + in the win column for any company, as they are out there talking about you, and most people make up their own minds regardless of what they read.  When you take action against those customers, or even potential customers, in the form of punishments and PNG's from your company's website, all that's happened is that bonus you're getting has just been tossed out the window, as now the opposite happens.  People walk away, instead of towards you.

Just my opinion, like Peppr, I've been around too long to go anywhere now, and what's keeping me here is I know it in my bones that the next thing coming will be something special, and will make me happy the way the first time I came here did, when Soulyss told me about it when we were talking Warbirds in another game 15 years ago.  IMO any time wasted on BBS trivium is making this date further into the future, and I personally don't want to wait any longer than is necessary.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 11:20:02 AM by Gman »

Offline Butcher

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #132 on: May 09, 2014, 11:18:39 AM »
I would say this, Do you play AH? Do you enjoy playing it? If you answer yes to this then. Get at it and enjoy!!

I think some people just take for granted the game we have. I've been gone over a year not by choice, but things happen. A year ago I whined about the 12 hour switch - I just did a few sorties, got to take up the new Tu-2 and even shot down a N1k trying to dogfight with it.
Most likely I won't log but a few sorties - maybe a dozen at most if I am lucky, I already feel my $15 is worth it. I'm just sorry I didn't break down sooner and get back flying, its something I miss.
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Offline hitech

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #133 on: May 09, 2014, 11:35:15 AM »
Gman Your speaking in theoretical, I'm speaking of specific actions.

What would you do with a customer who has sent PM's to people using fowl and abusive language and is complained about by the recipient of the PM's? Then this customer is warned and continues with the same actions?

You appear to be viewing things only as a no net loss, actions of some costumers will absolutely chase other customers off. These really are nothing but business decisions. I really have no desire to chase anyone away , or moderate any forum.

Your in essence requesting me to do nothing about anything. Saying that doing nothing is always better.

To put it simply My opinion is that the actions some players (some not even customers) was/is hurting my business. You may disagree, but it is my responsibility to make the decision , and me who suffers the consequences or rewards of the choice.

HiTech

Offline sonic23

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #134 on: May 09, 2014, 11:36:00 AM »
I don't understand what's wrong with the 12 he rule if anything it should be changed to the 24 hour rule. I also find it silly to ban people though for having an avatar with a 12 in it, eventually they wouldve realized nothing would change and they wouldve removed it on there own.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 11:37:34 AM by sonic23 »
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