F-35

[Butcher]

Scholz, old friend, you're barking up the wrong tree here.  The 1939-42 Japanese pilots took on pilots from Russia, China, England, the US, Holland, Australia and probably some others I can't think of, and handily beat them all.  They were superb pilots in superb equipment.  As someone mentioned, their glory lasted only through the end of 1942, and after that most of them were gone.

- oldman

As I suggested in another thread, read the book "Fire in the Skies - the Air war in the south Pacific". In fact the Zero was an amazing fighter, while it might of been slow, it out turned and out gunned anything we had available. The problem wasn't the aircraft, when the pilots ran out - they ran out. Secondly the Japanese had no idea of Logistics. For example at WeWak there were 6 Ki-43 fighters that were broken down, 5 could of been put back into combat service if they gutted one plane, the one that crashed and flipped over killing the pilot - it was a total loss. Were the Japanese mechanics able to use ingenuity to fit it? Nope. That one plane belongs to the emperor, that mechanic has no right to mess with it, only to wait for spare parts for 6 planes. On the other hand, the Americans - Torpedo squadron 8 (What was left of them from the Midway disaster) went to Guadalcanal with 8 planes  (TBF now). On the first night the runway was blasted by the Japanese battleships and all were destroyed. American Ingenuity - the Air boss decided to rip apart two F4F's and three TBM's, taking a wing from one, Tail from another etc and patched together ONE aircraft. Nobody would fly it, so the airboss took off with 8x 100lb bombs and headed towards artillery positions.

Some how the plane took off and few a few missions before it unfortunately crashed on the runway on its final mission breaking apart. The Japanese had a fine fighter for 1940-1942, problem was they had no R&D into an upgrade, the A6M3 wasn't a good replacement or upgrade - the Zero basically could not be upgraded as the 109 was. The Spitfire and P-47 were able to be upgraded eventually with better guns and bigger engine, the 109 still suffered from a good engine but hardly any weapons - plagued the design for the duration of the war. Same for the Zero.

[FTJR]

Did this conversation not just take a major diversion?

[bozon]

Did this conversation not just take a major diversion?

No. we are just getting the the point:
Should the Japanese replace their zeros with the F35?

[Changeup]

No. we are just getting the the point:
Should the Japanese replace their zeros with the F35?

Or the US should replace the F-35 with samurai swords...

[Bodhi]

It is saddening that Butcher offers a well thought out analogy to a sub-potion of this discussion and people can only offer mindless responses.

Yet another reason this community has declined so much.

[Butcher]

It is saddening that Butcher offers a well thought out analogy to a sub-potion of this discussion and people can only offer mindless responses.

Yet another reason this community has declined so much.

They do have a point, the topic went ---------> way off, but I was trying to offer an explanation of why the F-35 is going to be a valuable tool to our airforce as well as others around the world. Yes it might be overpriced, but we haven't had an aircraft like this since the F-4 Phantom which was used by all 3 branches. Unfortunately the F-4 wasn't a very well designed fighter, the F-35 will hopefully become what many hope it will fail.

I trace its roots back to the P-47 and FW-190 - both were tasked with one roll from the beginning and were able to adapt so well, unlike many aircraft. The F-35 is invisioned to be what the F-4 wanted to be - a multi role fighter.

[Zoney]

Vraciu, if I was a fighter pilot, and I flew warbirds for other people and I was so well connected with the flying community I would be very proud of that.  I certainly would have no problem identifying myself to other enthusiasts.

I'm sure you know where I'm coming from.  We have seen many many posers come and go over the years who had fantastic stories that ended up being nothing but lies from professional liars who knew how to use google.

You have invested a lot of time and energy making sure your opinions were known here.  Why not give them some credibility by telling us who you are?

Sir, 

[Changeup]

It is saddening that Butcher offers a well thought out analogy to a sub-potion of this discussion and people can only offer mindless responses.

Yet another reason this community has declined so much.

Don't mistake purposeful derailing for a little humor Bodhi.  The topic did evolve some but generally humor gets it's back around

[Vraciu]

This is not correct

The second sentence  is.  Perhaps I should have said "I-16-class" or something.   They were not fighting Yak-9s or LA-7s in the Buffalo.    Once the opponents got tougher the Brewster was phased out pretty fast.

[danny76]

Vraciu, if I was a fighter pilot, and I flew warbirds for other people and I was so well connected with the flying community I would be very proud of that.  I certainly would have no problem identifying myself to other enthusiasts.

I'm sure you know where I'm coming from.  We have seen many many posers come and go over the years who had fantastic stories that ended up being nothing but lies from professional liars who knew how to use google.

You have invested a lot of time and energy making sure your opinions were known here.  Why not give them some credibility by telling us who you are?

Sir, 

My money is on this post being carefully ignored

[Wmaker]

The Finns weren't often facing Yak-7s in their B-239s. 

Actually Finns were facing Yak-7s.

In the summer of '44 war weary Brewsters were facing big numbers of P-39s, La-5s, and Yak-9s flown by pilots whose training had significantly picked up from the early war and still performed. This fact gets 'conveniently' forgotten by those who like to belittle performance of LLv24 and LLv26 on this thread and others.

[Butcher]

Actually Finns were facing Yak-7s.

In the summer of '44 war weary Brewsters were facing big numbers of P-39s, La-5s, and Yak-9s flown by pilots whose training had significantly picked up from the early war and still performed. This fact gets 'conveniently' forgotten by those who like to belittle performance of LLv24 and LLv26 on this thread and others.

Wasn't most of the Finns flying 109G2s and 109G6s by 1944? According to the pilots themselves the Brewster was phased out in 1943.

[Wmaker]

Once they started facing real airplanes they got their butts kicked and withdrew the Buffalo from front-line service.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Actually having some knowledge about what you are talking about tends to help.

[Vraciu]

Complete and utter nonsense.

Actually having some knowledge about what you are talking about tends to help.

It is in their own official history on the subject, grasshopper.  By mid- to late 1943 they were severely outclassed and were mostly withdrawn in favor of other planes.  A few fought as late as 1944 but they were nowhere near as successful as before.

[Wmaker]

Wasn't most of the Finns flying 109G2s and 109G6s by 1944? According to the pilots themselves the Brewster was phased out in 1943.

Yes most were 109 by summer of '44. Brewsters fought from Summer of '41 on and were still flown against the Germans in the fall of '44 while 109s weren't. Brewsters flown by the LLv26 shot down plenty of late war Soviet fighters with very few losses (for Finns of course, every single loss was of course significant) while being badly out numbered and having planes that any allied nation would have struck off charge a long time ago for being war weary.