Stall limiter enabled?

[USRanger]

    I'm the one that stirred this up, because I'm in the same squad as an FSO CM.  I was able to voice my feelings on it being forced off directly to him.  What I was surprised about, is how many squaddies agreed with me and used it also.  I believe, just like tracers, it should always remain a PLAYER controlled option, as it was intended.  I for one need it when I fly some planes.  Without SL, all I can do is flip-flop-roundhouse stall over & over again as soon as I make my first combat move.  Frame 2 when it was forced off, I had three I-16s giving me a free lunch, but all I could do was flippy stall over & over until they got me.  I don't see it as a handicap at all if it makes me able to fly the plane.  And some players can stick their nose up and make fun of my "training wheels" all they want, because with me flying the plane with the option turned on, I just might hand them their ass.

Frame 2 with SL forced off (109-F-4): Flip flop stall cartwheel stall flip stall stall stall killed.

Frame 3 with SL left as an option (109F-4): 2 Kills, 4 Assists, Landed successfully.

I think my "training wheels" & "handicap" do just fine thanks.  Maybe tracers should be forced off for everyone in FSO.  Think anyone would complain?  Yet, stall limiter is in the same small box of PLAYER options that should never be messed with, unless by the player.  You can see from the stats above that I do much better with my "training wheels".  If I or anyone else uses SL, it hurts neither friend nor foe.  That's all I have to say on it.

Out.

[Devil 505]

Spot on Ranger.

Just think of all the players who found themselves in that same position when the change to forced NO stall limiter was made without notice. Even worse, is when flying thinking it was still on, finding your plane acting in an unexpected manner.

[pops57]

In 'the ten ring' Ranger! Hurts none and helps those who want to participate but haven't the time or as in my case the  skill to keep from falling out of the sky!

[LilMak]

I fly with the limiter on. I don't really need it when I'm flying Jugs because I'm used to the characteristics of the plane. I actually flew my first two FSOs without having any idea the stall limiter was off. The first time I noticed it was off was when I was knee deep in P-39s while flying a Zeke. I got a little ham fisted and stalled/spun into the dirt. I had no idea what the hell happened until almost a week later when I was flying a P-40 in the combat challenge and kept stalling it.

One reason I fly with it on is I actually fly a real plane and you can feel the stall developing. In game, I lose that sensation and it bugs the hell out of me.

Another reason a person flies with the limiter on is equipment. Some people can't afford $150 or even $50 dollar sticks. A good stick can make the difference between smooth inputs and spikey control movements. Imagine your riding a turn on the edge of a stall and your stick has a small spike. That little spike will send you spiraling into the dirt.

Stall limiter is a handicap for those who use it. You can't turn as hard or even do some manuvers as those who don't have it on. It's the MA standard and a personal preference the same as tracers and head positions. I get the idea of having it turned off for FSO and I believe it's good in theory but, more so, I don't think we should alienate players who would otherwise join or quit because of a simple setting.

[tmetal]

Well said ranger and lilmak

[perdue3]

I believe it should always be optional. No one here has the right to tell people how to fly. I have a few squaddies that use it (IDK why in hell they do). So to turn it OFF or ON is a bad choice. I believe it should be optional just like it is in MA.

[morfiend]

I know how it works. What I don't understand is why one would knowingly limit their performance vs other planes in arena that largely won't be using the limiter. Seems to me those that might choose to use it in that environment are the ones that are unimformed. Make no mistake there will be no limiter in use on my end so it's all good.

  If you know how it works then why did you say"I can see it on in the TA where everyone uses it"?  It's on in the MA's and the DA and AvA as well as the TA. No one is forced to use it and it's enable by default for all new player to ease them into AH.

  I dont see what the fuss is all about,and since you brought it up and said "discuss" I assumed you were looking for others opinions.  It seems to me the only players it effects are those who use it. If we want to get more players into FSO and help it grow back to the days we had 500 guys flying,forcing the SL off isnt likely going to help with that.

  Personally I dont care either way,I've never used the SL or infact a stall horn even but those are my choices and I wouldnt force them on anyone else. If some players want to use the SL knowing it limits their ability to turn and get to max AoA well thats up to them isnt it?

  Seems like alot of fuss over a silly thing but there's been plenty of that going around lately.



   

[snakeplissken]

Alright, I am coming out of the closet.  I use stall limiter.  I don't "fly" with it cause this is cartoon airplanes. I hate to break it to you but none of you are really flying.  If you think those are real bullets, the FAA wants to talk to you.  The lowest I have been ranked is 11 or 14 in a month.  As many of you older players know, rank has very little (or nothing) to do with skill.  Years back, my squad broke into 3 wings and I was fortunate enough to run the Aces.  What we did was work on score.  I watched every member, every day.  If your k/d was too low or your bombing percentage was not high enough we moved you out of the Aces.  We worked every day.  You know what?  It turned out to be work.  I know that many of you play the game to increase your skill level, and you work at it.  I know that almost all of you are better at it than I am.  But I fly the game nowadays for the fun of hanging out with my buddies.  In other words, I fly for fun and the stall limiter is a crutch I use.  But I do have an interesting thought.  One of the funniest times I have had in FSO was a 1 on 1 fight with Tmetal.  Both of us used stall limiter?  Who knew?  You guys that "fly" for the skill of it, turn it off.  Those guys that fly for the fun of it, turn it on.  Penny ante, Dealer's choice.

[WxMan]

Use SL in the MA if you want, but in FSO the settings should be the same for everyone.

[LilMak]

Use SL in the MA if you want, but in FSO the settings should be the same for everyone.

They ARE the same for everyone. Its not liike some people are forced off and others on. Use it. Don't use it. It's an option just like auto takeoff, combat trim, and the wingman function. All of which are available in FSO.

[WxMan]

They ARE the same for everyone. Its not liike some people are forced off and others on. Use it. Don't use it. It's an option just like auto takeoff, combat trim, and the wingman function. All of which are available in FSO.

Not really.  Using the OP example, a person who is ham fisted with the joystick or perhaps going to extremes - "a stick stirrer" will have a greater chance of leaving coordinated flight and augering. While those using SL doing the same things are landing kills.  In a venue where scores are kept, it is not a level playing field.

Finally there are some posters in this thread that while advocating the use of stall limiter, have denigrated the use of Spits as easy mode planes in other posts on the BB. When in reality the use of stall limiter makes every plane easy mode.

Finally LilMak, you are very proficient in this game, but would you be as good without the use of SL?

[LilMak]

Finally LilMak, you are very proficient in this game, but would you be as good without the use of SL?

Honestly, I'd probably be better if I accustomed myself to it again. Long ago, when H2H was around and I was able to manipulate the settings for the little 8 man rooms, I had it off. I flew like that for years and even transitioned to the MA with it off in my personal settings. I suspect, if it turned it back off, my game would likely show improvement by allowing me to pull off tricks I just can't do with it on.

The reformed 56th hasn't been flying FSO for that long (less than a year) and I flew six Friday night frames before I even knew the stall limiter was turned off for the FSO.

I understand the want for realism and that extra dimension of ACM but I also know from my H2H days that settings can alienate players. I WANTED to weed out players when I hosted my H2H rooms. For FSO I want as many happy players as possible and a simple setting that only affects those who use it wont hurt any of those who don't. Things are simplified for a reason (bomber calibration for example) and stall limiter doesn't give any pilot an advantage in my opinion. Whether its on or off won't change my participation but it might do so for others.

[tmetal]

There are pros and cons to both sides of the stall limiter choice. But if you are only interested in a level playing field for settings then things like tracers, combat trim, or even graphics settings all should be set by the event creator as each of those player controlled game settings can provide an advantage or disadvantage of some sort vs other players who have them set differently than you.

It all boils down to this: unlike things such as fuel burn rate, object hardness and icon range, the stall limiter always was intended by HTC to be a player controlled option. Which might have been the jist of what HTC said that Nef alluded to in this post

I will add that it is of my opinion that The Stall Limiter should be disabled in FSO for all pilots. The setting was recently switched back after persuasion by my CM Team constituents and even HTC. I have already given my opinion on the matter several times over of why I think it should be off but I am willing to be flexible for the handful of pilots who still use the option.

I have no idea which encounter you're talking about, but knowing that something I did in game was good or bad enough to be memorable to somebody else makes me smile.     plissken

  But I do have an interesting thought.  One of the funniest times I have had in FSO was a 1 on 1 fight with Tmetal.  Both of us used stall limiter?  Who knew?  You guys that "fly" for the skill of it, turn it off.  Those guys that fly for the fun of it, turn it on.  Penny ante, Dealer's choice.

[FLS]

It's funny to see a limitation of turning ability presented as an advantage that must be equalized. We are habituated to our settings. Turning off the stall limiter option puts everybody that normally uses it at a different disadvantage than their usual disadvantage. Why not let the player choose which disadvantage they want to fly with?