A way to discourage Bomb'N'bail/Suicide jabos.

[Wiley]

1. If they are running in a jabo, then they are still a bird in the air and can be run down and shot. And bombers aren't going to run from much over an extended period of time.

2. I doubt they would simply sit in the the tower. They might do something crazy up a light fighter for a little revenge.

1. P51D, P47, P38, Mossie and a few others are going to run from plenty.

2. Because everybody in the game wants to fly fighters.  Do I need to type this slower or in caps so it may sink in?

I will try typing it slowly...  There are people who play this game who like to blow stuff up, not engage in dogfighting.  I know it may be hard to believe for you, but it is true.  Discouraging them from doing their thing is not going to populate the skies with more people who want to dogfight.  It will result in them not playing.

Wiley.

[The Fugitive]

The differentiation is unimportant. Whether intended or not, the guy who gets shot down on a bomb run actually get to make a second, third, fourth bomb run faster than the guy who manages to survive and RTB. Thus in reality he is more effective for his side than a guy actually attempting to survive, which I think is an odd distortion to have in game that deserves to be addressed. Karnak's objection remains the only valid objection.

ahhh so logically your saying fighter guys should have to sit in the tower for 15 minutes too as if they are shot down they can return to the fight quicker. 

1. P51D, P47, P38, Mossie and a few others are going to run from plenty.

2. Because everybody in the game wants to fly fighters.  Do I need to type this slower or in caps so it may sink in?

I will try typing it slowly...  There are people who play this game who like to blow stuff up, not engage in dogfighting.  I know it may be hard to believe for you, but it is true.  Discouraging them from doing their thing is not going to populate the skies with more people who want to dogfight.  It will result in them not playing.

Wiley.

There is only one way to play this game, that's BnZ's way where everyone only fights in fighters, buildings and hangars never get bombed, GVer's never get in a tank.

Get with the program Wiley

[BuckShot]

The differentiation is unimportant. Whether intended or not, the guy who gets shot down on a bomb run actually get to make a second, third, fourth bomb run faster than the guy who manages to survive and RTB. Thus in reality he is more effective for his side than a guy actually attempting to survive, which I think is an odd distortion to have in game that deserves to be addressed. Karnak's objection remains the only valid objection.

Valid objection to bad wish: what if I like making jabo runs better than dogfighting, and don't care about who wins the war? Under your idea, I'd be penalized (which = less fun) for getting shot down by ack or planes while De-acking.

No thanks. You should change your wish. Wish for more guys in the DA. Maybe perks awarded in the DA would attract more flyers in there.

your current wish is just another "play the game my way" wish.

[Xavier]

BnZ's next wish: perk all bombs. Mark my words! 

[BnZs]

ahhh so logically your saying fighter guys should have to sit in the tower for 15 minutes too as if they are shot down they can return to the fight quicker. 

No, the widely lamented problem on these boards is that people flying fighters are engaging TOO timidly, so making fighter pilots more reluctant to die would only make that particular problem worse.

Whereas actually flying your jabo into the hangar your bombing is many things, but "timid" probably isn't the right word, thus it is a problem requiring a different and probably opposite solution.

[BnZs]

There is only one way to play this game, that's BnZ's way where everyone only fights in fighters, buildings and hangars never get bombed, GVer's never get in a tank.

Get with the program Wiley

Entirely inaccurate on all points. I am FINE with Snaphook and Widewing fighting in their A20s if they wish, for instance.  Bombing of town buildings is an important part of the base-taking dynamic, so I am perfectly fine with that. And GV fighting isn't my thing, but it is *still fighting*, which is the whole point of having a freaking MMO *combat* game.
You're bad at this logic thing Fugi. You're also the #1  NO ONE FIGHTS ANYMORE!!! complainer in the game. You complain about no fights and also the manner in which people engage you in fighters, but when I propose measures to sustain more fights and perhaps nudge players who aren't even trying to engage other players in combat at all into doing so, you lambaste my proposals, yet provide none of your own.

[Wiley]

BnZ's next wish: perk all bombs. Mark my words! 

So how then to encourage actually trying to RTB on attack runs without adding to the no-fighting problem? Perhaps a certain perk cost for ordnance, repayable upon RTB, as is the case with perk planes?

Too late.

Wiley.

[BnZs]

Too late.

Wiley.

Okay Wiley, since you're such a smart guy, why don't you chew on this problem: Killing a bomber or jabo anytime after they drop their bombs does nothing to help your side's war effort, in fact it simply helps them get back to make another bomb run quicker. What measures do we take to alleviate this distorting effect? Come on, I want to hear what you come up with.

[Wiley]

Okay Wiley, since you're such a smart guy, why don't you chew on this problem: Killing a bomber or jabo anytime after they drop their bombs does nothing to help your side's war effort, in fact it simply helps them get back to make another bomb run quicker. What measures do we take to alleviate this distorting effect? Come on, I want to hear what you come up with.

The same measures we take for fighters that get killed over enemy territory and don't have to take the time to RTB because they were shot down.  None.

Wiley.

[BnZs]

1. P51D, P47, P38, Mossie and a few others are going to run from plenty.

And they will all be caught by a higher P-51D, P-47M, Fw-190D9, or La7. It is not a guarantee, but at least it is a chance.

2. Because everybody in the game wants to fly fighters.  Do I need to type this slower or in caps so it may sink in?

I will try typing it slowly...  There are people who play this game who like to blow stuff up, not engage in dogfighting.  I know it may be hard to believe for you, but it is true.  Discouraging them from doing their thing is not going to populate the skies with more people who want to dogfight.  It will result in them not playing.

Wiley.

People who merely want to blow up inanimate objects, if such exist, are quite silly for paying $15 a month to do it online instead of dong it offline for free. And tinkering with some of the anti-fighting dynamics (and the temporal rule whose name must not be spoken) might make this game less boring and help close off the hemorrhage of players leaving it because it has become so boring. As would some measures to gently nudge the MA back towards being a dogfighting culture and less of a "let's smash buildings and run a goon! Yay everything is awesome!" culture.

[Ack-Ack]

Honestly, all I see is a wish that would end up hurting the game instead of helping it. 

ack-ack

[BnZs]

Probably most people sense this.  The concern is that kicking out people who like to bomb and bail, or who think they're helping their country to win the war by bombing fighter hangers, may not improve the overall numbers.

- oldman

Adjusting conditions doesn't amount to kicking someone out. And do you really think we aren't losing more players because of lack of action and bad anti-fighting dynamics than we are keeping due said dynamics? Think about why YOU first signed up for a game called "Aces High"...to bomb hangars? If the game panders to the sort one catches bombing for hours on end in the empty MW at the expense of those who fight, then it imperils its own future.

[Wiley]

And they will all be caught by a higher P-51D, P-47M, Fw-190D9, or La7. It is not a guarantee, but at least it is a chance.

Yup.  And they might get killed on the way in too by a plane higher than them.  It's not a guarantee, but at least it's a chance.

People who merely want to blow up inanimate objects, if such exist, are quite silly for paying $15 a month to do it online instead of dong it offline for free. And tinkering with some of the anti-fighting dynamics (and the temporal rule whose name must not be spoken) might make this game less boring and help close off the hemorrhage of players leaving it because it has become so boring. As would some measures to gently nudge the MA back towards being a dogfighting culture and less of a "let's smash buildings and run a goon! Yay everything is awesome!" culture.

So... to be clear, your solution to stop the hemorrhage of players leaving is to encourage the people who are here to bomb inanimate objects with their friends to leave.

There is a flaw with your cunning plan.

Horde up and smash has been with these games since they were created.

Wiley.

[Karnak]

I recall climbing out in a Mossie and seeing a P-51D tear by me, making an attack run on the base I had just taken off of. I turned and dove after him.  Now given I started at ~180mph when he was already probably well over 400mph there was no way I could catch him even leaving aside that his fighter was about 10mph faster than mine, but I went in pursuit.  He tore it and blew up our radar, but did not suicide.  He leveled off, rapidly pulling away from me, then pulled up and came around for a second attack.  I moved to position myself to intercept after his attack.  He bombed or rocketed something and took off running.  I dove and was able to close to about 500 yards whereupon I was able to keep gaining my making him squirm to avoid bursts of .303 rounds.  Then we came to a ridge that he had to climb over and my Mossie's superior climb rate gave me the upper hand.  I closed to about 300 yards when he decided he wasn't going to be able to out run me so he tried to fight.  It was a short fight, but he tried.

That is the difference between a kamikaze and a bomb and run player.

[Iamtheknight]

What if we didn't score damage on sorties where the player failed to RTB?