Review the Yak-3 damage model.

[save]

Today I've had it with those  Yak3's incredibly damage-absorbing skills.

I found Eatg flying home, not looking back in his Yak3, I was a 4*20mm FW190A8 closing in from behind.

I shot only with the 20mm at 400 yards closing in.

Landing 20mms all over his wings and airframe, he pulled up and got away.

He asked me if that was me, and I acknowledged and I asked if he had any damage.

"No, I was hearing ping's and was waiting to explode", he wrote back to me.

Normally I  kill a B17 with that volley of 20mm's, and that plane did not have one part damaged (!)

I'm Asking HTC to review the damage model of the Yak-3. Remove some hit point or do something about it, it does NOT absorb that much damage.

[Tinkles]

Today I've had it with those  Yak3's incredibly damage-absorbing skills.

I found Eatg flying home, not looking back in his Yak3, I was a 4*20mm FW190A8 closing in from behind.

I shot only with the 20mm at 400 yards closing in.

Landing 20mms all over his wings and airframe, he pulled up and got away.

He asked me if that was me, and I acknowledged and I asked if he had any damage.

"No, I was hearing ping's and was waiting to explode", he wrote back to me.

Normally I  kill a B17 with that volley of 20mm's, and that plane did not have one part damaged (!)

I'm Asking HTC to review the damage model of the Yak-3. Remove some hit point or do something about it, it does NOT absorb that much damage.

It would be very helpful to have a video/film of this incident.

[lyric1]

Yak-3 Was made of wood & like the Mosquito they absorbed damage more so than the metal aircraft.

[Volron]

Yak-3 Was made of wood & like the Mosquito they absorbed damage more so than the metal aircraft.

Not to mentioned he said he "landed 20mms all over his wings and airframe" of the Yak, not a concentrated burst to a spot.

[bozon]

Yak-3 Was made of wood & like the Mosquito they absorbed damage more so than the metal aircraft.

Strangely that does little good to the mosquito damage model in AH.

Not to mentioned he said he "landed 20mms all over his wings and airframe" of the Yak, not a concentrated burst to a spot.

It was a 4x20 A8. You have at least two cannons hitting together. The yak3 is one of the very few single engine planes that may survive a volley from a mossie 4x20 mm hispanos. Even if you rake the target you have multiple cannons hitting in a tight cluster.

It would be very helpful to have a video/film of this incident.

I have some films of similar incidents. One I event sent to HTC.

We have been through this before. Yes, the way AH assigns the damage to individual parts  and the binary (perfect/destroyed) way AH handles component damage favors small planes - and the yak3 is very very small. Still, the strength of individual components should be adjusted to compensate for this effect. The yak3 is the extreme case that exploits every weak point in the AH models, both in how it flies and especially in its damage absorbing power.

[artik]

To be honest, as somebody who flies Yak-3 all the time I can't say it any of kind a "strong" plane.

It may stand few .50 cal rounds hits but other than that it isn't much stronger than a Zero, it catches flames easily and it is very prone to PW. However it is challenging to hit as it is a very small plane. From what I had noticed flying Yak-3 that under similar conditions it has much smaller chance to get hit but once it gets they are quite devastating.

Also note that for example in comparison to P-51D it has ~80% less wingspan but that means that it has only 64% of the surface you can hit. Basically even if wing can stand X damage there are much higher chances that you just don't hit the plane in the same spot to make a damage. On the other hand there are much higher chances that you'll hit vital parts like pilot or fuel tank. So there is a chance you you make a colander of the Yak but it would continue to fly because your fire wasn't concentrated enough.


One more thing - Yak isn't made of wood - it is composite - it has metal spars and internal structure but skinned with a plywood. Something like Hurricane but with plywood instead of fabric.

[save]

Presently I have 5169 kills in the A8 alone, according to statistics  presented to me, by courtesy of TonyJoey in another thread.

In 95% of the kills, I was flying in the 4*20mm configuration.

Yak3 is by far the damage absorb champion of it's type.

How a plane with a empty weight of roughly 2 tonnes can take a volley of high-explosive 20mm shells is just beyond belief.

[Charge]

"Yak-3 Was made of wood & like the Mosquito they absorbed damage more so than the metal aircraft."

Without knowing what the structure was like what makes you think wood has some magical qualities over aluminum other than Mossies alleged resilience to damage?

"Not to mentioned he said he "landed 20mms all over his wings and airframe" of the Yak, not a concentrated burst to a spot."

I don't think AH has such a refined damage model. I'd say that the wing has two major parts and when enough hits are registered to one general area the part breaks.

The Yakety is hardly the only plane which needs its damage model reviewed.

-C+

[Butcher]

Yak3 is by far the damage absorb champion of it's type.

How a plane with a empty weight of roughly 2 tonnes can take a volley of high-explosive 20mm shells is just beyond belief

I've never seen the Yak-3 as a damage absorber, few times I shot them down with barely any 50 cal ammo at all (under 50 bullets). I've done the same with a P-47 on a few ocassions (flying a Ki-84 for example).
Then again I've sat behind aircraft in a Yak-3 and just unload and watch Fw-190s just fly away like nothing. Difference is the Yak-3 is a wiggler, unless you can concentrate your firepower the smallness of the Yak-3 means you won't tend to land very many rounds in one place.

I always said the Spitfire had plastic wings, not so true - however in a turn fight a Spitfires wings can be concentrated on, a Yak-3 however you might as well forget it.

There was a time when I could pin point my shots; in a FSO scenario I once downed 9 planes with a Hurricane, I aimed for the wings of a 109 and stuka and just gave it 1 second burst, I remember the last kill I ended up spending over 800 rounds just trying to saw a wing off.

Really depends on the concentration, how far away; how much hits land.

[BnZs]

I don't think AH has such a refined damage model. I'd say that the wing has two major parts and when enough hits are registered to one general area the part breaks.

That is the problem. On large planes a burst will tend to be hitting either the "wing root" or "outboard" portion of the wing for purposes of the damage model. On tiny planes, the same burst will tend to put a lot of it's rounds in BOTH sections, dividing the damage and thus doing nothing. Smaller planes need their damage resistance turned down a tick or two to compensate.

[save]

snip
Then again I've sat behind aircraft in a Yak-3 and just unload and watch Fw-190s just fly away like nothing. Difference is the Yak-3 is a wiggler, unless you can concentrate your firepower the smallness of the Yak-3 means you won't tend to land very many rounds in one place.

That's exactly why they introduced the 3 gun-version of LA7, and Yak-3.
IRL an LA-5 had a hard time downing a Fw190a8 even at closer range, with wing guns due to dispersion and short ammo clip.

Only a few of the 3-gun planes where in service of either LA-7 and Yak-3 before the war ended. In AH we are unfortunate only to see the 3-gun version of LA-7 (and never the 2-gun), and no 3-gun Yak-3 (which is  fortunate)

IRL a B17 needed about 20 20mm rounds to plummet to earth, How many thinks the Yak3 is more durable ?

[nrshida]

Without knowing what the structure was like what makes you think wood has some magical qualities over aluminum other than Mossies alleged resilience to damage?

Wood is a natural composite of fibrous cellulose suspended in a lignin matrix with a comparative strength to weight ratio to steel, not aluminium alloys. When arranged in a true monocoque structure or a single spanwise spar and skin then it's simply a question of a higher tolerance to localized damage over a very broadly distributed stress system. No magic necessary. Unless you're talking about the designers of course.

[artik]

IRL a B17 needed about 20 20mm rounds to plummet to earth, How many thinks the Yak3 is more durable ?

One thing about Yak-3 it has not a bad package (20mm+12mm) against fighters, but it is almost a suicide to go hunt bombers! They shred you with one short burst.

Before you start talking about how "durable" Yak-3 is... fly it for a while it is hard to hit but once you hit it, it is almost always fatal.

[Butcher]

IRL a B17 needed about 20 20mm rounds to plummet to earth, How many thinks the Yak3 is more durable ?

In real life yes, In aces high we have damage modeling; if you concentrate your firepower a Yak will go down just like any other aircraft; problem with dispersion is the Yak is a very SMALL target; unless you are on top of it then you might as well forget about thinking your "Snapshot" is going to bring one down.
Look at the Yak-3's size, I can tell you even in my prime I had a tough time targeting Yak-9's, most planes like the Fw-190 and Bf-109 I can aim for the wings, or specific parts, a Yak? forget it; I would simply aim for the cockpit instead.

Again I once concentrated twin 12.7's on a Ki-84 and shot down a P-47 with less than 45 bullets total, in real life there were some with hundreds! of holes in it; same for a B-17. Problem is you can riddle a B-17 with 20mm; unless you hit the engine or fuel tank you are simply just scratching the paint.

I know you are a smart pilot in game, but I think your vendetta against the Yak-3 is simply mystical - I highly doubt Hitech would purposely make the plane stronger then anything else in the sky, and honestly the many times I fought a Yak-3, Its no different then a Yak-9.
You know full well I've been in game over 10 years, I wouldn't sit here and defend it if I haven't flown enough sorties against a Yak-3, I simply find nothing special about it.

[Karnak]

There are limits to what can be done due to the damage model as it stands.  Make the small planes much more fragile and suddenly they go from too tough to too fragile as a single 20mm round becomes an almost sure kill on one.