Author Topic: Ummm, is the possible?  (Read 4041 times)

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11603
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2014, 02:44:50 PM »
That's one weird looking Corsair.

Custom paint job.

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2014, 09:43:45 AM »
This is pretty long, what time is the scene where he replicates the maneuver in Gizz's film?
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline TonyJoey

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1953
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2014, 12:15:52 PM »
So are we going equate a maneuver that a specifically designed aerobatic airplane can perform with a Corsair?

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11603
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2014, 02:53:07 PM »
This is pretty long, what time is the scene where he replicates the maneuver in Gizz's film?

So are we going equate a maneuver that a specifically designed aerobatic airplane can perform with a Corsair?


The video shows snap rolls into uncontrolled flight.  I think that's a better indicator of possibilities than uninformed speculation.
Even in Aces High different aircraft designs react differently to the same control inputs.

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2014, 03:08:22 PM »

The video shows snap rolls into uncontrolled flight.  I think that's a better indicator of possibilities than uninformed speculation.
Even in Aces High different aircraft designs react differently to the same control inputs.

Okay, but what time is the maneuver similar to the one in Gizz's video? I watched about 6 minute carefully and didn't see it.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2014, 03:09:43 PM »
Looking for about 45 degrees nose up pitch with the plane drifting sideways for about two seconds or more, no rotation.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11603
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2014, 03:13:53 PM »
I never said that video had the same maneuver in it.

Do you have a reason why gizz's maneuver wasn't possible?

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2014, 04:12:09 PM »
I never said that video had the same maneuver in it.

Do you have a reason why gizz's maneuver wasn't possible?
So what was the point of the video precisely?

Well, for one thing the F4U is a plane known for dropping a wing if you applied full power with flaps out on *approach* at speeds around ~70, which we calculated to be the Corsair's approximate stall speed with flaps out. Right? I posted pictorial proof Gizz's Hog at one point having less than 50 mph IAS at 1G with high power settings, if you remember. While drifting directly sideways.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11603
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #83 on: July 18, 2014, 05:37:21 PM »
You are simply describing what you see in the video. You aren't telling us why it couldn't happen.

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8492
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #84 on: July 19, 2014, 12:41:11 AM »
So what was the point of the video precisely?

There are two points:

Firstly demonstrate that aircraft can depart in extraordinary ways and recover reliably and predictably. I actually agree with him about this. Some AH players have even incorporated these kind of manoeuvres into their standard ACM and if they are willing to put the considerable time and energy needed to develop & practice these then good for them.

Secondly, FLS is pressing this aspect of the topic so he can deflect attention from the observation that the AH Corsair is favourably and unrealistically modeled when it comes to the nature of departure. Gizz's Corsair should have snapped inverted and needed more altitude to recover than he had if the quote from Widewing / historical description has any validity at all. FLS would like to ignore or keep attention from this point. Additionally if you continue to differ with him you can expect more of this:

uninformed speculation.

...which is basically a subtle, forum rule-safe ad hominem attack which I already suggested he will resort to. Your opinion will be devalued by any means available if it doesn't agree with his, especially when he is personally motivated to win the argument.


Three people have so far PMed me that FLS spends a considerable amount of his TA time flying and even teaching the Corsair. Would you care to comment on this or the relevance of this FLS?


Happy Friday Pipz!
-=Army of Muppets=-
"Get stuffed Skyyr, you freak" - Zack1234

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11603
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #85 on: July 19, 2014, 04:36:19 AM »
I admit I have conducted training with the F4U on several occasions. You got me there.

Other than that you are mistaken.

Widewing's quote was a pilot talking about accelerated stalls in a turn. That's not what Gizz was doing.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 05:35:10 AM by FLS »

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8492
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #86 on: July 19, 2014, 06:01:08 AM »
I admit I have conducted training with the F4U on several occasions. You got me there.

Then since you are not without a very small bit of experience in Aces High's Corsair, in your opinion does the characteristic of the accelerated stall match what is described both historically and by modern pilots of this aircraft?


Happy Friday Pipz!
-=Army of Muppets=-
"Get stuffed Skyyr, you freak" - Zack1234

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11603
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #87 on: July 19, 2014, 07:50:04 AM »
Which characteristic, pulling yourself on your back in a turn?

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8492
Re: Ummm, is the possible?
« Reply #88 on: July 19, 2014, 01:41:51 PM »
Which characteristic, pulling yourself on your back in a turn?

 :rofl

Happy Friday Pipz!
-=Army of Muppets=-
"Get stuffed Skyyr, you freak" - Zack1234