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Author Topic: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.  (Read 9048 times)

Offline Serenity

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2014, 12:17:36 PM »
Quote from: GScholz on July 22, 2014, 10:58:08 AM
Well... the collateral damage did not expand beyond the "embattled territory". The innocents flew over the "embattled territory".

Agreed, it's a bit of a grey area, and there is certainly something to be said for poor decision making on the part of the airliners, but the expansion of the conflict to things like airlines albeit over the embattled territory, it shows a significant risk of continued expansion of violence. Similar to the sinking of passenger liners near England...
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #106 on: July 22, 2014, 12:34:11 PM »
No. Unlike the passenger liners running the German blockade of Britain in WWI and WWII, the airliner could easily have flown around the war zone in Eastern Ukraine. Its destination wasn't anywhere near Ukraine. You say "risk of continued expansion of violence" as if the violence has actually expanded. It hasn't. If anything it has been more contained recently by Ukrainian forces.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #107 on: July 22, 2014, 01:14:27 PM »
Quote from: GScholz on July 22, 2014, 12:34:11 PM
No. Unlike the passenger liners running the German blockade of Britain in WWI and WWII, the airliner could easily have flown around the war zone in Eastern Ukraine. Its destination wasn't anywhere near Ukraine. You say "risk of continued expansion of violence" as if the violence has actually expanded. It hasn't. If anything it has been more contained recently by Ukrainian forces.

Vertical expansion is still expansion.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2014, 01:30:57 PM »
You say that as if MH17 is the first aircraft that has been shot down in East-Ukraine...
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2014, 02:23:42 PM »
Quote from: BuckShot on July 22, 2014, 12:02:13 PM
It's a good thing Ukraine is in the UN and is enjoying the benefits of membership.

Cough, cough.
And Russia is member of the UN Security Council. And so was China while it was at war against UN forces.  :headscratch:
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2014, 02:30:09 PM »
This thread is wandering into areas it should not be wandering into.  Heads up!
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Offline BuckShot

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2014, 02:50:23 PM »
Quote from: FLOOB on July 22, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
And Russia is member of the UN Security Council. And so was China while it was at war against UN forces.  :headscratch:

exactly. what a joke.
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Offline mbailey

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2014, 03:23:27 PM »
Quote from: Skuzzy on July 22, 2014, 02:30:09 PM
This thread is wandering into areas it should not be wandering into.  Heads up!

Made it 8 pages so far though.....maybe there is hope for it
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #113 on: July 22, 2014, 07:51:04 PM »
Quote from: mbailey on July 22, 2014, 03:23:27 PM
Made it 8 pages so far though.....maybe there is hope for it

I was actually just thinking I was impressed it's come this far...

Quote from: GScholz on July 22, 2014, 01:30:57 PM
You say that as if MH17 is the first aircraft that has been shot down in East-Ukraine...

It's not the first, no, but it's the first civilian passenger plane just passing through the area. Previously, it was their problem, in their area. Now it's gone international.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #114 on: July 22, 2014, 08:25:46 PM »
Quote from: FLOOB on July 22, 2014, 02:23:42 PM
And Russia is member of the UN Security Council. And so was China while it was at war against UN forces.  :headscratch:

Communist China was not part of the UN nor sat on the Security Council during the Korean War.  The UN only recognized the Nationalist Chinese as the true government of China at the time, the ChiComs were frozen out.

ack-ack
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #115 on: July 23, 2014, 01:56:12 AM »
I hope Skuzzy was referring to the UN debate...

Quote from: Serenity on July 22, 2014, 07:51:04 PM
It's not the first, no, but it's the first civilian passenger plane just passing through the area. Previously, it was their problem, in their area. Now it's gone international.

So? So what? It is their problem, in their area. Do not fly into their area if you don't want to risk being on the wrong end of a mistake. War is dangerous. The international aviation authorities should have done something when 10 or more Ukrainian aircraft were shot down the last few weeks prior to MH17. It is not the separatists fault that the sky is full of civilian planes when they're trying to defend against Ukrainian air attacks.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #116 on: July 23, 2014, 04:27:39 AM »
Satellite photos of the site. I think it's safe to infer it broke apart in a steep dive.

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6610091/12e38e24/satellietfoto_s_rampplek_mh17.html

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Offline danny76

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #117 on: July 23, 2014, 07:29:28 AM »
Quote from: BuckShot on July 22, 2014, 12:02:13 PM
It's a good thing Ukraine is in the UN and is enjoying the benefits of membership.

Cough, cough.

I have served on UN duty. It's the most impotent organisation on the planet
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #118 on: July 23, 2014, 09:38:16 AM »
Quote from: GScholz on July 23, 2014, 01:56:12 AM
It is not the separatists fault that the sky is full of civilian planes when they're trying to defend against Ukrainian air attacks.
It is their fault for not accurately identifying a hostile aircraft before pulling the trigger.  Someone made the decision to shoot and apparently didn't care what they were shooting at.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Malaysian Air flight shot down over Ukraine with 295 aboard.
« Reply #119 on: July 23, 2014, 10:07:43 AM »
Quote from: Puma44 on July 23, 2014, 09:38:16 AM
It is their fault for not accurately identifying a hostile aircraft before pulling the trigger.  Someone made the decision to shoot and apparently didn't care what they were shooting at.

Exactly. If it were anyone else, you don't think there would be a huge outcry? Know your target.
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