Horrible Shot

[Zoney]

I hope you are joking.


If you want to get really good at shooting do this:

Get closer.

[Skyyr]

I hope you are joking.


If you want to get really good at shooting do this:

Get closer.

I'm not.

[Ratsy]

My latest revelation on gunnery has been stick scaling.

I have been working on gunnery as well.  Many years in the game and I was still spraying and praying.

The Gunnery Course really helped me in a couple of ways that have been mentioned here - sight picture and unloading G's before committing to the shot.

Knowing your stick (each one is potentially unique) and stick scaling in the game software are critical.

I've been spending a great deal of time offline practicing (another takeaway from the GC).  This helps build eye and hand memory and over time builds confidence when setting up a shot.  If you muff a setup, don't press.  Keep up your airspeed and set up the shot again.

Of course this might not work for everybody, but I have a lot more confidence in the game, my sticks, and in me.

 

 

[Zoney]

Good job ratsy, you are definitly moving in the right direction.  Wiley is right on the mark, get your stick scaling fine tuned and unload whenever possible.  Yes sometimes, you won't be able to unload and that will require different timing to be learned but the stick scaling is extremly important with either one.

[bustr]

Latrobe just used several thousand words and pictures to explain the following:

1. - His main ring is 100Mil. His guns shoot on average to 1000ft(333yd) in 1\3 of a second. His con is traveling between 45-90 degrees of his line of travel between 250-300mph. Half of the 100Mil ring or it's radius 50Mil = the distance the con travels at 100mph in 1\3 of a second. He is leading by 300-350mph in radii with an additional radii as a buffer. About four 50Mil radii.

2. - His pursuit curve has placed his wings at roughly a 60 degree bank.

3. - Two possible scenario in his pursuit curve are taking place.
   a. - He has unloaded and is essentially sitting there for 1\3 of a second hoping his con fly's into his bullets.
   b. - He is pulling into his con at a 60 degree bank just nearing 2G giving him a 3 second window of firing along with a moment of aim adjustment. Past 2G your rounds fall behind your turning con.

Latrobe is a natural and has reached the point of robotic repeatability using these principles visa trial and error without knowing the specifics.

Hitech's physics is close enough to the real world that his gunnery is also. Which means the core principle of the 100 mph ring holds true in the game. Latorbe's picture shows the classic 60 degree pursuit curve angle in which you guide your con along the lower edge of your forward windscreens into your bullet stream.

A simple problem with aerial gunnery in the game is most don't see what I've just explained as they are maneuvering. The majority of their gunnery is shooting as a reaction to their sight picture. Rather than flying their plane to give them a sight picture based on the 100 mph ring principle. Basically they are never sure from moment to moment if their gunnery will work no matter how advantageous the sight picture looks.

Morfeind knows how to teach the basics of this. Most don't bother to ask him.

[bustr]

If you use the 100mph ring principle here you will see a lead of seven 50Mil radii at 200yds with a lot of elevation of the main gun. I suspect this is a 109 with a MK108. If it were a MG151/20, the shoot point would have been just as the con's nose comes out of the windscreen right hand upright.

[glzsqd]

I don't claim to be any sort of gunnery expert, but watching Vudu15 and Latrobes videos have helped me get out of those gunnery ruts I tend to have every now and again. What I do is pay attention to were the piper is relative to the plane they are shooting. Although I've also been hopelessly addicted to shooter games since I was 3 years old, so I probably didn't have to adjust nearly as much as others did.

[BnZs]

Gentlemen, I think we should keep in mind that people who complain about missing shots are often not so much failing to calculate lead properly but are in fact failing to hold the darn pipper steady enough for their lead calculations to do them any good.

[bustr]

100mph principle for the K4 shooting a 30mm round at InitV 500m\s.

Notice because the round is slower than 880m\sec, the 100mph radius has to be expanded to about 80Mil to account for the longer time to 1000ft. Still you can always calculate the 100mph principle for any gun knowing the InitV of the round and it's time of travel to 1000ft.



100mph principle shown default for 50 cal\Hisso 20mm in light blue at a 50Mil radius, then the first red line for the MG151/20 at about a 65Mil radius and second for the MK108 30mm at an 80Mil radius.

WW2 fighter pilots had to pass ground school classes where they learned to comp this on the fly being shown flash cards or, get washed out.

[Tinkles]

For someone who is good using both the 30mm and 50cals. I recommend this, use a gunsight that is relevant to the plane you're flying (don't use a sight made for a 109-k4 (30mm) on an F6F or F4F (50 cal).     Use one gunsight for a caliber, it's what I do.  I use a specific gunsight for each plane I fly depending on what caliber of round that plane uses, one gunsight dedicated to 50 cal, 30mm etc.

To be honest, I never knew any of the information that Latrobe posted, and can't really understand what Bustr posts the whole mil thing throws me off.  I memorized the trajectory based on many hours of training offline with the 'circlet of drones'. Getting my precision with 50 cals to the point where I can hit a spot on the bombers 600 yards away with tracers off. And accurately hit a fighter at 500 yards with the 30mm.   You need to develop your own system of shooting while using the information given here as a guideline or stepping stool. 

If you see me in-game just ask, wouldn't mind assisting you with your aiming in the TA. ~ In-game name is Tinkles I fly Bishops. 

[glzsqd]

For someone who is good using both the 30mm and 50cals. I recommend this, use a gunsight that is relevant to the plane you're flying (don't use a sight made for a 109-k4 (30mm) on an F6F or F4F (50 cal).     Use one gunsight for a caliber, it's what I do.  I use a specific gunsight for each plane I fly depending on what caliber of round that plane uses, one gunsight dedicated to 50 cal, 30mm etc.

To be honest, I never knew any of the information that Latrobe posted, and can't really understand what Bustr posts the whole mil thing throws me off.  I memorized the trajectory based on many hours of training offline with the 'circlet of drones'. Getting my precision with 50 cals to the point where I can hit a spot on the bombers 600 yards away with tracers off. And accurately hit a fighter at 500 yards with the 30mm.   You need to develop your own system of shooting while using the information given here as a guideline or stepping stool. 

If you see me in-game just ask, wouldn't mind assisting you with your aiming in the TA. ~ In-game name is Tinkles I fly Bishops. 

I'm the same way, US MK9 for all Browning 50cal and Hizooka armed birds. For germans planes I use the stock Revil gun sight, don't know it off hand. I
haven't really gotten acquitted with other kinds of guns(Russian, Japanese) but I do like learning the different trajectory's and ballistics different gun packages offer.

My way of aiming with 30mm armed planes is simple, once I've pulled what feels like enough lead, I violently jerk the stick back even further and let out a 2 to 3 round burst and more times than not ill get a hit. Probably not the best way, but its only way I've been able to get them to work so far.

[Kodiak]

If you want to get good at shooting, and want to do so quickly, then do this:

• Turn your scaling off on all axes.
• Turn your dampening to zero.
• Turn your deadzone down to zero (unless you have a loose joystick or a joystick that won't truly return to zero).

These simply serve as crutches 99% of the time and teach bad gunnery habits; with the exception of the deadzone, they all inherently promote sloppy control of the joystick. There are some players who have legitimate uses for them, but those cases are rare and far between.

The aim small, miss small idea of trying to hit specific areas of an aircraft does not work either. It works fine in non-combat and training situations, but the second you introduce stress, you'll find it becomes unreliable. In a higher-stress situation (such as the adrenaline rush from wanting to win a dogfight), fine motor control goes out the window. All that is left is coarse motor control. Want to see this in action? Run for 30 seconds and then hold a pen, as if you were trying to write with it, and attempt to keep it perfectly still for 10 seconds - you can't. This is loss of fine motor control and it happens when you undergo stress, regardless of whether it's for positive or negative reasons.

Take that same pen, grip it in your fist (like a hammer), and try to hold it still - you'll find this is much easier. This is coarse (or gross) motor control. You will fall back to your default level of coarse motor control in a stressful situation.

Not surprisingly, this is also what is taught in most real-life advanced weapon-manipulation training courses.

What you want to do is make your stick ultra-sensitive with a direct input ratio (i.e. no scaling). You'll find that it will feel very jumpy and almost unusable at first, but you'll also discover that, after a bit of practice, you can quickly adjust to rough guesstimates and be able to hold them rock-steady. Because of the direct scaling, there's no "learning" curve - it's intuitive. Half-stick, half-deflection; full-stick, full-deflection; and so on. Once you have this down, simply pull lead, then walk your shot in. Leave tracers on for this reason. This is the same method that was taught for using the F-16's cannon back in the 90's.

Do not do the unloading trick - that teaches bad habits that, while making it easier to get some shots, puts you in a less advantageous position should you miss your shot.

TL;DR - Summarized: Take out all of the post-processing of your joystick input - it simply serves to "confuse" your natural reflexes and makes it harder to learn what is somewhat intuitive. Focus on quickly pulling the "rough" amount of lead needed over the center mass of the aircraft, fire, and then walk your shot in. You'll find it immensely easier to learn to shoot.

This is an interesting theory and would make sense if the player were under the effect of a true adrenaline dump...but are they?  I'm not.  A professional golfer relies on fine motor skills when under tremendous stress such as the final 9 holes while trying to win the British Open in a close contest.  But I doubt they're suffering from the heart racing shakes of a true adrenaline dump.  If they were they couldn't make a 12 foot uphill putt and another player would likely prevail.  Stress doesn't necessarily equal an adrenaline dump and degradation of fine motor skills.  I guess if the player can honestly say they are under the effects of a true adrenaline dump in most dogfights then relying on gross motor skills would make sense.  But to abandon fine motor skills when they are still intact would not.  Gross motor skills only produce better results when fine motor skills are not available.  So I don't think this is a one size fits all solution.  In firearms training it is fairly certain a combatant in a life or death self defense situation will be under the effects of a true adrenaline dump (same could probably be said for an F-16 pilot in actual combat).  In video game combat maybe not.

[FLS]

If you want to mitigate a loss of fine motor control then scaling pitch, as long as you are flying at your trim speed, is the way to do it, since scaling gives finer stick control near the axis center.

If you aren't at your trim speed scaling may cause your muscle memory to be at odds with your intentions.

[katanaso]

Skyyr also neglects to add that he uses a Force Feedback stick...

Take his advice to the regular sticks with a grain of salt.

[bustr]

For someone who is good using both the 30mm and 50cals. I recommend this, use a gunsight that is relevant to the plane you're flying (don't use a sight made for a 109-k4 (30mm) on an F6F or F4F (50 cal).     Use one gunsight for a caliber, it's what I do.  I use a specific gunsight for each plane I fly depending on what caliber of round that plane uses, one gunsight dedicated to 50 cal, 30mm etc.

To be honest, I never knew any of the information that Latrobe posted, and can't really understand what Bustr posts the whole mil thing throws me off.  I memorized the trajectory based on many hours of training offline with the 'circlet of drones'. Getting my precision with 50 cals to the point where I can hit a spot on the bombers 600 yards away with tracers off. And accurately hit a fighter at 500 yards with the 30mm.   You need to develop your own system of shooting while using the information given here as a guideline or stepping stool. 

If you see me in-game just ask, wouldn't mind assisting you with your aiming in the TA. ~ In-game name is Tinkles I fly Bishops. 

And ultimately why the K14 and it's family of gyroscopic precession based gunsights were created. Most pilots never really understood gunnery other than surviving trial and error. And just like yourself could not communicate the process other than "seat of their pants".

I'm describing the process you spent hours offline learning by trial and error when I describe the 100mph principle. Your Mil lead at 500yds is the relationship between the speed of the con and your bullet's speed of getting to 500yds. You are describing the con's speed and range when you pick your amount of lead and elevation in reference to your 100Mil main ring for your shot. Lead also varies depending on your con's angle of travel to your own, along with how much G force you are at in your turn the moment you shoot. More G, more bank, more lead, and diminishing returns. Yes trial and error for every shot.

The collimator gunsight reticle is a measuring aid just like the Mil Dot scope reticle used by snipers. They do it sitting still. We do it in flight with G loads and high speeds.

Revi16D 100Mil main ring.



N9 101Mil main ring.