A 109 Dweeb Question

[Skyyr]

What are you going to do when you have no alt or speed to work with?

I guarantee the majority of 109 pilots in this thread are not easy kills because I've flown with them and against them for years.

You seem to imply that because I refuse to willingly enter a "knife fight" (correctly referred to as stall fighting), that I cannot stall fight. Your logical fallacies and assumptions aside, that was not what I said at all. I simply stated that those who initiate stall fights first typically end up being easy kills.

[Someguy63]

Nice write up Violator.

[Triton28]

I like them all honestly.  On the days when my aim is actually decent the K4 cannot be beat.  That said, I have to agree with Latrobe.  The 109F can be a beast. 

[Triton28]

What are you going to do when you have no alt or speed to work with?

Oooo... I know this one!

Unloaded extension followed by a shallow climb.  If he's going to be caught he'll turn vertically* and shoot you in the face. 


* - The only acceptable turn.  Ever. 

[Motherland]

109G6- So this 109 has an even bigger engine and climbs, excel, top speed, and ammo load out changes to 50cal which  is better. Now this 109 is right in the middle of performance in the 109 set. It's faster than the first 3, but doesn't turn as well. Its slower than the later 2 but turns a tad better.  I'd say besides the 109E, it is the toughest to fly.  It still lacks speed and excel in the latewar which causes it to get ganged easily like the first 3. It's views are little more tough with the engine callings, and it feels considerably heavier than the G2. IMO, the engine still isn't powerful enough for the weight of the plane, which can make it seem sluggish.

This isn't really true at all. The G-6 is essentially the same aircraft as the G-2 with the MG17s substituted for MG131s. Due to the added weight and cowl bulges it's slower and has poorer acceleration and climb than the G-2.

I think that the extra weight makes it a bit more docile and comfortable though, while the other 109s tend to be a bit vicious. The G-6 is one of the more comfortable ones to work on. Plus, the firepower is pretty great.

[Someguy63]

This thread should be getting a bit more interesting.

[Changeup]

You seem to imply that because I refuse to willingly enter a "knife fight" (correctly referred to as stall fighting), that I cannot stall fight. Your logical fallacies and assumptions aside, that was not what I said at all. I simply stated that those who initiate stall fights first typically end up being easy kills.

If they initiate them when outnumbered they are prime for the PICKER.  But left to their own devices, they'll win 1 v 1 the majority of the time.

It didn't sound to me at all that Del was implying you cannot stall fight.  He was presenting a situation that happens often even when people try to keep their speed.  By your response to the OP, one doesn't have to assume much other than you like to keep your speed up and by your sig, you prefer not to turn.  That set of evidence supports Del's question but I'll be more direct:

Can you stall fight?  If so, what situation must present itself in order for you to do that?

[Motherland]

Just as clarification, 'hard-easy' is completely subjective, and I don't think anyone is 'wrong' in that sense, I was just commenting on the engine types as far as that goes. The G-2 and G-6 both have the same exact DB-605A engine, and there's not any room for discussion there.
The G-6 probably has the 'worst' combination of characteristics of any 109, and due to being the 'jack of all trades' and not shining in one particular area it may be the hardest to score/land kills in, but its balance also lends itself to flyability in my longstanding opinion. Of course disagreeing with this is totally valid.

[Oldman731]

Just as clarification, 'hard-easy' is completely subjective, and I don't think anyone is 'wrong' in that sense, I was just commenting on the engine types as far as that goes. The G-2 and G-6 both have the same exact DB-605A engine, and there's not any room for discussion there.
The G-6 probably has the 'worst' combination of characteristics of any 109, and due to being the 'jack of all trades' and not shining in one particular area it may be the hardest to score/land kills in, but its balance also lends itself to flyability in my longstanding opinion. Of course disagreeing with this is totally valid.

I agree with all of this.

Real men fly the G6.

- oldman

[Motherland]

The G-6 is also the best looking 109.
That's objective though.

[Stampf]

The G-6 is also the best looking 109.
That's objective though.

Of that, there is little room for debate - imho.

[DmonSlyr]

Just as clarification, 'hard-easy' is completely subjective, and I don't think anyone is 'wrong' in that sense, I was just commenting on the engine types as far as that goes. The G-2 and G-6 both have the same exact DB-605A engine, and there's not any room for discussion there.
The G-6 probably has the 'worst' combination of characteristics of any 109, and due to being the 'jack of all trades' and not shining in one particular area it may be the hardest to score/land kills in, but its balance also lends itself to flyability in my longstanding opinion. Of course disagreeing with this is totally valid.

Yeah that's true man. Honestly, I was writing this out of experience and haven't flown the g6 or G2 very much since I have been back. I'm at work so I can't look up any stats lol. But Thx for clearing that up.

[LLv34_Dictonius]

The G-6 is also the best looking 109.
That's objective though.

Agreed!!!

We have one of those in Tikkakoski aviation museum. It's about 20 minutes drive for me.



When Lentolaivue 34 was active on AH front, we used to fly these birds all the time. Nowadays I find meself in spit VIII or similar all the time

This even though this fact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIymlJYOw7A&list=UUdMi-IjJYVboG5nkdihf-QQ&index=21

[Skyyr]

Can you stall fight?  If so, what situation must present itself in order for you to do that?

The problem with a stall fight is that most pilots think the overshoot (and subsequent shot opportunity) is the end-game - those pilots are typically easy kills because all you have to do is avoid the potential deflection shot and your "overshoot" has now turned into a predictable rope... and it's actually very, very effortless to avoid it once you realize the mechanics of what's going on. Once that is realized, overshoots are actually the most effective way to rope an opponent, and I do it quite regularly. Probably 60% of my kills are purposeful overshoots on my part.

The end-game of the overshoot, for the defender, should be to enter a rolling scissors to equalize e-state, not to obtain a shot.

A stall fight should be entered only when

• Your own airspeed is close to minimum vertical maneuvering speed
• Your own airspeed is higher than your opponents, making an overshoot imminent if uncorrected

And:

• Your airspeed is too low to provide adequate clearance to either clear your opponents gun range or reverse in the vertical
• OR your airspeed is too close to your opponents that it will effectively leave them at a static distance behind you, within guns range

Those circumstances are when I enter a stall fight.

[caldera]

The problem with a stall fight is that most pilots think the overshoot (and subsequent shot opportunity) is the end-game - those pilots are typically easy kills because all you have to do is avoid the potential deflection shot and your "overshoot" has now turned into a predictable rope... and it's actually very, very effortless to avoid it once you realize the mechanics of what's going on. Once that is realized, overshoots are actually the most effective way to rope an opponent, and I do it quite regularly. Probably 60% of my kills are purposeful overshoots on my part.

The end-game of the overshoot is the rolling scissors to equalize e-state, not to obtain a shot.

A stall fight should be entered only when

• Your own airspeed is close to minimum vertical maneuvering speed
• Your own airspeed is higher than your opponents, making an overshoot imminent if uncorrected

And:

• Your airspeed is too low to provide adequate clearance to either clear your opponents gun range or reverse in the vertical
• OR your airspeed is too close to your opponents that it will effectively leave them at a static distance behind you, within guns range

Those circumstances are when I enter a stall fight.

You must be a lot of fun at parties.