A 109 Dweeb Question

[Triton28]

Charts say otherwise... Climb, speed, roll rate, and turn rate are all compromised... Also, see stigler for an anecdotal account: http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/pilots/stigler/stigler.htm

Yes they do, but I think the point he's making is the plane still feels pretty responsive and able to fight with gondies on.  I would agree, too. 

[Wiley]

Yes they do, but I think the point he's making is the plane still feels pretty responsive and able to fight with gondies on.  I would agree, too. 

In a multi on multi fight, the performance loss doesn't hurt you too bad and Violator does have a point about the quick kills.  If it comes down to a 1v1 the gondies affect you more.  Not to say it can't be done, but they make it harder.

Wiley.

[Triton28]

In a multi on multi fight, the performance loss doesn't hurt you too bad and Violator does have a point about the quick kills.  If it comes down to a 1v1 the gondies affect you more.  Not to say it can't be done, but they make it harder.

Wiley.

More firepower is more good, IMO. 

[DmonSlyr]

Charts say otherwise... Climb, speed, roll rate, and turn rate are all compromised... Also, see stigler for an anecdotal account: http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/pilots/stigler/stigler.htm

I agree that they would make a substantial difference in real life.

However, in this game I do not think they make a drastic difference. I fly it a lot and do just the same difference in 1v1 fights in the MA. I mean if I was fighting an equal opponent in G14s 1v1 and I had Gondies and he didn't then maybe, just maybe they might out maneuver me. But I think you get more bang for your buck using Gondies rather than not in the MA

[Vraciu]

I agree that they would make a substantial difference in real life.

However, in this game I do not think they make a drastic difference. I fly it a lot and do just the same difference in 1v1 fights in the MA. I mean if I was fighting an equal opponent in G14s 1v1 and I had Gondies and he didn't then maybe, just maybe they might out maneuver me. But I think you get more bang for your buck using Gondies rather than not in the MA

I have a better chance against 109s in a turn fight vs my Pony when they have gondolas on.   I have noticed this without exception.

[Wiley]

I agree that they would make a substantial difference in real life.

However, in this game I do not think they make a drastic difference. I fly it a lot and do just the same difference in 1v1 fights in the MA. I mean if I was fighting an equal opponent in G14s 1v1 and I had Gondies and he didn't then maybe, just maybe they might out maneuver me. But I think you get more bang for your buck using Gondies rather than not in the MA

It's also a familiarity thing too, I'm sure.  Turnfighting in a Jug is trickier than in a 109, but it's possible to do if you know the Jug well.  Same with the gondies I'd expect.

For me, if I'm flying a G14 I'd rather have the 30mm than gondies.

Wiley.

[DmonSlyr]

It's also a familiarity thing too, I'm sure.  Turnfighting in a Jug is trickier than in a 109, but it's possible to do if you know the Jug well.  Same with the gondies I'd expect.

For me, if I'm flying a G14 I'd rather have the 30mm than gondies.

Wiley.

Really? Why not just use the K4 then?
I fly the G14 to avoid the 30mm lol.

Idk though. I mean, going to the p47, how much difference does it make using the lighter ammo load out?

I feel like in Aces high, it's more of a psychological difference, even though it does make the plane slightly lighter, I don't think it makes a big difference other than it takes more passing shots to kill them with less gun fire ( for me at least cause of my connection) if they took damage like in real life than I wouldnt need to use Gondies.

[Skyyr]

It's also a familiarity thing too, I'm sure.  Turnfighting in a Jug is trickier than in a 109, but it's possible to do if you know the Jug well.  Same with the gondies I'd expect.

For me, if I'm flying a G14 I'd rather have the 30mm than gondies.

Wiley.

20mm + gondolas give better ballistics at distance and better shot spread. One of the biggest drawbacks of the 30mm is that you typically need to be in closer than 400yds for successful hits, which decreases the effectiveness of the fighter compared to the 20mm's range.

[Wiley]

Really? Why not just use the K4 then?
I fly the G14 to avoid the 30mm lol.

For the sweet, sweet perks.

Idk though. I mean, going to the p47, how much difference does it make using the lighter ammo load out?

Well, in my hands turnfighting a P47 is best done at 25% or less fuel, WEP is critical.  The light ammo load doesn't make a huge difference if you keep 8 guns, though it is somewhat noticeable working in the vertical and when you start stallfighting flaps out.  6 guns, light load you can really feel it though.  If I DA in a jug, I'm apt to take 8 guns light ammo because I know it's only going to be 1 opponent and I'm familiar enough with it at that weight.

I feel like in Aces high, it's more of a psychological difference, even though it does make the plane slightly lighter, I don't think it makes a big difference other than it takes more passing shots to kill them with less gun fire ( for me at least cause of my connection) if they took damage like in real life than I wouldnt need to use Gondies.

I REALLY notice the roll rate difference with the gondies as well as the ability to work the vertical is diminished.  The faster you are the less they affect you, but once you start stallfighting I feel they really drag you down, literally.  Again, that can probably be overcome with familiarity.

20mm + gondolas give better ballastics at distance and better shot spread. One of the biggest drawbacks of the 30mm is that you typically need to be in closer than 400yds for successful hits, which decreases the effectiveness of the fighter compared to the 20mm's range.

For BnZ, 3x20mm is definitely easier to work with.  I've been trying to buff hunt with the 30mm lately and having a helluva time with it.  I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of practice.  I don't even bother pulling the trigger on 30mm unless I'm within 300 yards on a fighter.  Its dispersion is pretty close to that of silly string.

Wiley.

[Debrody]

Accept your "inner geek", Deb.  It's OK.  I got over it years ago!

Its like drug abuse...if you keep it secret no one has to know!  

ok.

[BnZs]

Anyone who deliberately has the requisite knowledge to identify a 109, P-39, Yak-3, C205, etc., is almost certainly a nerd/geek or whatever you want to call it, and thus effectively an alien to the majority of our largely unthinking species. Here is a thought that will give you nightmares: No matter how logic-challenged some forumites may seem, most of them are well above average in thinking ability. It makes me shudder to ponder that fact.

[Zerstorer]

20mm + gondolas give better ballistics at distance and better shot spread. One of the biggest drawbacks of the 30mm is that you typically need to be in closer than 400yds for successful hits, which decreases the effectiveness of the fighter compared to the 20mm's range.

Agreed...but the gondolas do start to really impact performance more noticeably in the later model 109s (at least to me it seems more noticeable). I took up a G14 with gondolas last night for thr first time in a while.  Got a kill and a few assists but had a tough time knifefighting a Spit9...more so than I would in a clean loadout. The G14 rust didnt help either. 

[BaldEagl]

most of them are well above average in thinking ability.

And you have some means of corroborating this?


Regarding gondies, no gondies, 25% fuel, full fuel... Doesn't matter except in a one on one same plane duel.  Taking a G2 with gondies and 100% internal is no different than taking a slightly lower performing but harder hitting aircraft.  If all you want is performance then everyone would fly Spit XVI's, La-7's and K-4's at 25% fuel.

[The Fugitive]

And you have some means of corroborating this?


Regarding gondies, no gondies, 25% fuel, full fuel... Doesn't matter except in a one on one same plane duel.  Taking a G2 with gondies and 100% internal is no different than taking a slightly lower performing but harder hitting aircraft.  If all you want is performance then everyone would fly Spit XVI's, La-7's and K-4's at 25% fuel.

Ya it said so on a wiki he read. 

[BnZs]

And you have some means of corroborating this?

They are on this forum, reading and writing about WWII airplanes, thus they are presumably all functionally literate. They have all read books or articles about WWII airplanes. That indicates reading for pleasure, and reading nonfiction for enjoyment at that. These two things are not common.