Author Topic: Is it wrong???  (Read 7767 times)

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2014, 03:34:14 PM »
What's more interesting around here is that other people want to force you to lean in the direction that makes it easier for them to get a kill, or to have a "fun" fight. Doing otherwise is dishonorable and/or makes you a dweeb. They don't ask, they almost demand, if you deviate from those instructions you are garbage and will never amount to anything.

WRONG.

It means other people don't wanna hear uberness until uberness is actually achieved, lol
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2014, 03:43:07 PM »
Nothing much you can do in this game except hacking Hitech's code or otherwise cheating for advantage is morally wrong.

Now, you were flying a Brewster, with which (no disrespect intended) a chimpanzee could win a turning dogfight against an LA or most other Late-War "monster" planes when flown by fighter jock of average skill. The LA has ways to win that fight, but instead of relatively intuitive angles fighting the LA must use advanced, difficult, tricky E fighting,  which thing the Brew can still often mess up through prop-hanging and reaching out with the golden BBs at 400 plus yards. In the hangar *you* chose a plane that can outmaneuver most easily, but that comes at the price of being unable to run down most. He couldn't use the strengths of his plane to shoot you down, but guess what, you weren't able (in 4 or 5 attempts) to convert the strengths of *your* plane into a killing shot either. So it ended in a stalemate. Nothing shameful in that on your part, but nothing shameful on his part either. And if the La7 pilot had possessed the skill to convert into a killing opportunity on you, I don't think you would be any emotionally happier with that outcome than with him running away. The MA is a vicious and competitive game. You may not be happy when someone kills you or the prey slips away, but you can't reasonably expect the prey to lay down and die for you either. In the long term, that wouldn't really be any fun either now would it?


Today I up my trusty Brewster. I tangled with a few then in comes a LA.  Get on his six and he leaves, running away. I roll out, he returns, then he runs. Happened 4 or 5 times. Just before blowing a gasket I begin to ponder. I see a lot of talk on the forum about "run stangs" "spit dweeb" blah blah. Is it really wrong to capitalize on each planes strength? I was turning and burning the Brewster. Was I in the wrong to use its strength?



Random post, no doubt. Just a thought...


« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 03:49:32 PM by BnZs »
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2014, 04:04:23 PM »
well.... it does start out wrong....  :aok

What's wrong with the Brew? True it turns so well that a chimp could win an angles fight against most planes in it, but that comes at the price of being slower than an iron toad. So it will often find other planes simply walking out of its gun range when it gains an angle, and will find itself in bad situations it cannot possibly extend away from. That's balanced. Some planes turn well but are slow, some are fast but turn badly. The Brew is simply near one of the extreme ends of this spectrum, and there's nothing wrong with that.  :aok

Take your beloved F4U Corsair and compare it to a 190D9. They are also at very different places on the spectrum. The Corsair turns much better, the D9 has an edge in acceleration and top speed.

Now you may say that if a Brew manages to get close to the six of your Corsair for some reason, such as he dove on you or you were already engaged with another plane, then the fight is pretty easy mode for him after that. And you would be right! But if a Corsair locks onto the six of a slow D9 (perhaps it had engaged a P-51D in a classic matchup), it is also the Corsair's fight to loose and there is not too much the D9 pilot can do if the Corsair pilot is competent, right? All the planes have something going for them and some things that can be said against them, and I think in the long run the MA is more interesting if people are flying a variety of fighters to their various strengths, rather than a very few types.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8632
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2014, 04:23:02 PM »
What's more interesting around here is that other people want to force you to lean in the direction that makes it easier for them to get a kill, or to have a "fun" fight. Doing otherwise is dishonorable and/or makes you a dweeb. They don't ask, they almost demand, if you deviate from those instructions you are garbage and will never amount to anything.


Well such vacuous rhetoric is easily recognized and ignored. I think implying superiority through applying an inherently safer or advantageous approach is equally meaningless.

Not really my point at all however.


"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2014, 04:33:24 PM »
I always think it's interesting to consider why players tend towards one end or the other of the BnZ - TnB spectrum.




That's why I like the 109s so much. They can do both. And the Spit XIV too (the best 109 ever made!).
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Kingpin

  • AH Training Corps
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1071
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2014, 05:02:42 PM »
Ah, so encountering those guys and dying means you haven't mastered all 3. Therefore, on the flipside, if you fought any two (or perhaps three) of those guys, at the same time, in a 2v1 or even a 3v1, and won, it means you do know what you're doing. Hmmmm... interesting. Thanks for the reassurance!


Here's a perfect illustration of my point from earlier in the thread.
Quote from: bozon
For those of us playing this game for well over a decade, Aces High is more of a social club. The game just provides the framework. I keep logging in for the people and Pipz was the kind that you keep coming to meet again.

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8632
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2014, 05:05:35 PM »
That's why I like the 109s so much. They can do both. And the Spit XIV too (the best 109 ever made!).

How dare you derail this thread with a discussion of the 109 GScholz. You never see a 109 thread derailed  :old:

Yes tactics are very relevant to the opponent's aircraft. Unless you have a significant speed advantage, then ACM need not be very demanding at all.


"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline Zerstorer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1192
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2014, 05:26:40 PM »

Energy-->Angles-->Stall Fighting = What the best pilots that have ever played the game are able to do all the time, anytime, in any situation and in virtually every plane.


An interesting statement. My addition in red is to clarify an implied point in the statement.

If "uberness" is using all three aspects, and statistics mean nothing in this game... how does one measure "uberness"? I believe its been stated or implied that it cannot be measured. If this is the case...at what point does one know they achieve this status?
The Once and Former Fulcrum

In my experience, nothing is ever what it seems to be, but everything is exactly what it is.

Offline Max

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7818
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2014, 05:30:01 PM »
Hate PM's would be my 1st guess.  :neener:

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23939
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2014, 05:41:28 PM »
Hate PM's would be my 1st guess.  :neener:

Don't think so.... if it were that case, I would have had achieved 'uberness' many years ago.
Sometimes I think killing goons seems to create way more hate PM's than displays of awesome ACM  :old:
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline BaldEagl

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10791
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2014, 06:13:48 PM »
If "uberness" is using all three aspects, and statistics mean nothing in this game... how does one measure "uberness"? I believe its been stated or implied that it cannot be measured. If this is the case...at what point does one know they achieve this status?

The build-up finally releases and the next thing you know you're knee deep.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Changeup

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5688
      • Das Muppets
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2014, 07:00:07 PM »
An interesting statement. My addition in red is to clarify an implied point in the statement.

If "uberness" is using all three aspects, and statistics mean nothing in this game... how does one measure "uberness"? I believe its been stated or implied that it cannot be measured. If this is the case...at what point does one know they achieve this status?

Uberness is what your squadmates have been claiming since they got here.  All of the rest of your post is drivel....again.  When they can fly in those modes fluidly, come brag on the boards about their excellence...until then, pfffft...its just noise.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline Kruel

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 738
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2014, 07:17:00 PM »
WRONG.

It means other people don't wanna hear uberness until uberness is actually achieved, lol

Oh, who decides that ? You? The best pilot in your squad? This is where we have a fundamental difference in philosophy, we make our own definition of what skill is, we try to achieve the goals we set for ourselves, be it rank wise or kill streak or having a good fight vs multiple opponents, or having fun our way.

You still think its just a saying..but..We really don't give a Damn, what you think or anyone else thinks. We aren't here to please you.

Offline Skyyr

  • persona non grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2014, 07:29:18 PM »
Uberness is what your squadmates have been claiming since they got here.  All of the rest of your post is drivel....again.  When they can fly in those modes fluidly, come brag on the boards about their excellence...until then, pfffft...its just noise.

No one currently in our squad claimed to be "uber," nor have we promoted that. In fact, our single stance has been a focus on effectiveness, so the über argument is sort of baseless.

That being said, your argument insults those we have shot down.  You imply that we do not know how to fly stall fighting or turn fighting, which would belie a shortcoming in our skillset. Therefore, in line with your reasoning, if we happen to win a fight, it's logically it shows an accomplishment on our behalf, as we would have been fighting against someone who supposedly possesses additional superior skillsets.

Logically, your argument does not hold weight, unless you mean to state that the opponents we defeat are not versed in e-fighting, in which case, what you have stated about us lacking in skillset applies equally to them.
 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 07:31:59 PM by Skyyr »
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline Volron

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5805
Re: Is it wrong???
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2014, 07:37:52 PM »
I'm the Uber of hitting trees?  Do I win a prize? :D
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.