Is it wrong???

[Tinkles]

(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)

So true. 

[Aspen]

Anyone remember the scene from Lonesome Dove where Gus is discussing chasing the buffalo herd with Pea?

[Skyyr]

BTW fellers....how did your duels go with TC and Joker1 the other night?  Did you whip up on ole TC and Joker??  They had lots of libations in um I betcha too.  How many of you vs them?  I never got that part of the story?  Was it even money or was it just TC and Joker1 against 3 or more? lol.

lemme know how that went.

They won two out of seven engagements, 2v2, same planes. Kruel got booted by his ISP after we won our last fight and we switched to 1v1's. I lost one 1v1 engagement out of about 5 or 6 fights.

I might still have the films (can't remember if I deleted them or not to make space for other FRAPS films). Not sure how this is relevant.

[bustr]

It's becoming a new form of entertainment watching everyone trying to find the bleeding edge of the new Skuzzy WhupBan, so you can get back to stirring up slop slinging purse fights.

[Changeup]

I had to leave but I think out of the 6-7 duels we had, we lost the first one (maybe another?) and won the rest..it was 2v2 ..not sure what happened after I left..maybe they can answer that question for you. For someone who thinks so little of us, you sure are informed aren't ya?

Nope, I received an unsolicited PM regarding the event.  I thought I'd ask to see what you fellers said.  I'm sure he'll be along shortly.

[Skyyr]

Aren't you rather belabouring to prove an axiom though? That selecting the most effective technique is more effective?

On the contrary, Robert Shaw did all of the proof of logic. I'm simply amused at how the crowd here thinks that following established logic is somehow a sign of weakness, when in fact it is simply following one of the most basic and fundamental rules of air combat. There is a degree of satisfaction watching such arguments, knowing that that those decrying it most are the same ones claiming understanding of ACM. It's quite ironic, actually.

[Zerstorer]

I assume Changeup won't answer my question. Maybe he doesn't know.  Pity, based on this post:

Aces High, by virtue of its design, always unmasks the skilled vs. the unskilled and score is not a measure of either.  Have fun...doing it your way just be very careful of claiming uberness because we already know whether you are...or whether you are not.

I figured he knew.  

Oh...BTW....why is the pot calling the kettle black?  

[Mongoose]

Is it really wrong to capitalize on each planes strength? I was turning and burning the Brewster. Was I in the wrong to use its strength?

Not only is it not wrong, it is the way you should be flying.  Remember, you were flying a fighter plane.  The way you win a fight is to use the strengths of your plane better than your opponent uses the strengths of his plane.  If I have superior speed, I will use it.  If you have superior speed, I expect you to use it.  If I have a height advantage, I will use it.  If you have a height advantage, I expect you to use it.  I need to find some way to beat you in spite of your height advantage. 

If you aren't expected to capitalize on the strength of your plane, we might as well all be flying the same plane.   Log in.  Today's map is Greebo, and today's plane is the A6m.  You don't get to choose a different plane, everyone is flying the same thing.  That's OK for certain scenarios, but part of the Aces High experience is seeing how the different planes stack up against each other.

[DmonSlyr]

Nope, you were flying to your strength which is absolutely the right thing to do. That is what you were both doing, the problem was you were both doing it evenly enough to reach the stand-off that caused your frustration. However there are some other options for you as the slower fighter, and I would like to make this suggestion.

When you see the faster aircraft coming back, don't turn into him for a merge, let him have your six until the last moment while you build speed. Then use a loaded roll to avoid the shot and bring yourself back onto him for a shot of your own as he overshoots. I have illustrated what that looks like in the diagram below from two different perspectives.

(Image removed from quote.)

That may not be exactly what was happening, but you can set up a similar manoeuvre from many different situations providing you still use the loaded roll to force the faster aircraft to overshoot. Even then it involves an element of risk and it takes some practice to come out of your roll perfectly timed for the shot while they are still in range, but it is worth working on, because when it works it packs a big wow factor.     

Hope that helps.

Badboy

Lmao badboy actually helping someone. Did you have an epiphany?

Anyway, I'd take this guys advice.  This is what you do agaisnt those pesky BnZers, especially in a plane that is slow. Badboy calls it the loaded roll (which is probably the right turn) I call it a lag roll because it is almost like you lag on their 6, when they are following you in the nose down turn they will be blacking out and aiming ahead so they can't see you. Then cut throttle a bit and do a roll right over them and maybe get a shot.

It takes a lot of practice and timimg. But definitely need to learn the trick when you are fighting in slower planes. 

[GhostCDB]

Based on the plane I am flying which is either : P38J, 109K4, or Ki84 I am fighting to whatever will make the fight somewhat fun.
If I know I am fighting a newer guy I will attempt to make it interesting for myself and at least a learning experience for the person I am fighting, not just completely smack him into the ground. This may involve me giving up my six a few times or just simply not firing when I am behind him but instead disengaging and allowing him to re-merge. I don't know why but beating easier people just isn't fun anymore, it is almost like vulching a field. I don't understand the enjoyment people get out of vulching unless they are capping a field. Usually after the fight, if I won or lost, I will give the other pilot tips. It is actually how I met a few of the guys in my squad now.

Now if the pilot is better than me or as good as me I am not holding back  I already suck so giving myself to someone who is just as good is not going to happen. I usually lose anyways cause I get impatient or I simply forget what to do in a certain situation.

The game is about making fun for yourself not listening to how others think you should fight.
Earlier today I logged in, for the first time in maybe a week and a half. I go to the fight between 231Knights-232Rooks...I sit in the tower and I see 3 NIKI's at 25k a Brewster at 20k a few spits a few high ponies. I try to up from the field (My joystick is already weak sauce so I didn't expect to live) but a 190 flies past at least 4 guys from 15k just to vulch my P38. I got a laugh out of it. I upped again, and flew towards the town as a P51 dives on me, I reverse him and a Yak isn't too far behind so I pull off. Yak one ping PW's me so I bail. I up from a near field to get altitude. When I arrive at 231 again I engage 3 ponies in a 3 v 1. . .They were tough AT FIRST, then they got impatient and all ended up coming at the same angle and easily reversible. 2 of them ran off while I fought one last one. I killed him, then a Pony returns and dives on me. I evade and evade and evade and I guess he gets bored so he eventually tried to slow down, I reversed him he ran to the deck. I was aware there were a lot of high enemies around I just didn't care lol I chased him. A pony and Me410 dives on me I break and as I break the pony turns around and comes back to me, I laugh because I expected it. So here I am fighting yet another 3 v 1 in a P38J v 2 Ponies and a Me410. A spit16 then dives into me as I get on the initial P51 and of course the P51 runs AGAIN. . .The spit16 saddles me, I reversed him once but couldn't stick with his turn, he turned into me and I died. I didn't get mad, just simply laughed.

It's the game you pay for really and I used to tell people how to fly the game ALL the time. Then DrBone yelled at me for whining and told me there isn't anything I can do about it and that its always been like this and I know that. He made a lot of sense, because it has always been like this. Well lately it has and by lately I mean since 2011.

[nrshida]

On the contrary, Robert Shaw did all of the proof of logic. I'm simply amused at how the crowd here thinks that following established logic is somehow a sign of weakness, when in fact it is simply following one of the most basic and fundamental rules of air combat.

I flew against him at the furball lake once. He was winging round with someone in Spitfires. I called him a picker     I actually find his text a little limited / too conventional in the context of Aces High.

There is a degree of satisfaction watching such arguments, knowing that that those decrying it most are the same ones claiming understanding of ACM. It's quite ironic, actually.

I don't think that's quite it. The informed aren't decrying the application of using the strengths of one's aircraft as I think a brief survey of this thread indicates. It's more what you do with it and why you choose to employ it in the first place which is the point.

I think Ryno summarized it best:

That said, what IS wrong, in my opinion, are the people who fly only to win (using only uber rides, fighting only with advantage, ganging, picking, ho-ing, etc.) who then go on to chest thump, self promote and otherwise troll the game on 200 and in this forum. 

Just a question really, I doubt this kind of conversation can ever reconcile the differing ideologies but have you lot just once considered trying to understand the prevailing culture here? That it is different than the one you are used to in your old game? I mean I don't wish to sound rude, I'm very glad you and your fellows are able to continue your hobby but you haven't exactly made an effort to fit in or even be respectful of the traditions of your new home. Rather more been wrecking the furniture and trying to shape the Aces High culture to your own desires it seems to me.

[Skyyr]

Just a question really, I doubt this kind of conversation can ever reconcile the differing ideologies but have you lot just once considered trying to understand the prevailing culture here? That it is different than the one you are used to in your old game? I mean I don't wish to sound rude, I'm very glad you and your fellows are able to continue your hobby but you haven't exactly made an effort to fit in or even be respectful of the traditions of your new home. Rather more been wrecking the furniture and trying to shape the Aces High culture to your own desires it seems to me.

I think you're actually quite insightful. In fact, spot on. However, it has nothing to do with wanting to make "Aces High" more like the "old game" (Fighter Ace), or any other game. Aerial combat is about killing the other guy, and the other team, as quickly and efficiently as possible, using the choice of air combat maneuvers that are most applicable to each situation. We've found that the community here has bastardized that concept, turning it into a leisurely activity skewed with subjective concepts of honor and "fun."  We do not intend to now or ever fit that mold. We come from a background of very competitive play across numerous flight sims, where the winner is the last man standing regardless of how he got there (without cheating, of course). If it is possible, it is fair. This isn't to cover up deficiencies or inadequacies, it's simply because we're more interested in, for example, killing 10 guys than we are in in having a single 20-minute long "great fight."

Bluntly, we didn't come here to adapt, we came here to kill. We don't care if others disagree with us, but in similar fashion, don't expect us to accept their opinions. We will do what we want, how we want (within the confines of the game, that is). I'm not sure how many times this needs to be repeated until it's realized that we truly mean it.

[nrshida]

Bluntly, we didn't come here to adapt, we came here to kill. We don't care if others disagree with us, but in similar fashion, don't expect us to accept their opinions. We will do what we want, how we want (within the confines of the game, that is). I'm not sure how many times this needs to be repeated until it's realized that we truly mean it.

And that's your right to choose to do so. Repetition isn't necessary. The resistance you are meeting has little to do with that is what I'm trying to illustrate. You assert quite forcefully you don't care and will do what you want and yet you fellows are continuously participating in arguments about what your activities mean. No going about your business quietly suggests to me at least that you are rather more interested in trying to cultivate a reputation here than your not caring implies. No?

We've found that the community here has bastardized that concept, turning it into a leisurely activity skewed with subjective concepts of honor and "fun."  We do not intend to now or ever fit that mold. We come from a background of very competitive play across numerous flight sims, where the winner is the last man standing regardless of how he got there (without cheating, of course). If it is possible, it is fair. This isn't to cover up deficiencies or inadequacies, it's simply because we're more interested in, for example, killing 10 guys than we are in in having a single 20-minute long "great fight."

Yes that's true from a certain perspective. But that's equally alright isn't it, if that's what people choose to do? Perhaps not using your approach is not a deficiency but a choice? This is just a past time after all right? I have met people who try to extract much more from this game and arguably more disturbingly perverted things from other players than choosing not to fly efficiently or smart. It just strikes me that in fact it is your faction that is the most intolerant. You insist score is the only worthwhile measure, you insist a kill regardless of circumstance is meaningful. I don't agree with either point myself but I'm just one tiny person.


You should join my plane for half an hour once. Most of my MA merges start with at least one plus-e opponent on my high six and me alone wriggling like a noobly maggot on a hook. It's either start disadvantageously or die of boredom when you are a solitary off peak-hours player.

[Oldman731]

I think you're actually quite insightful. In fact, spot on. However, it has nothing to do with wanting to make "Aces High" more like the "old game" (Fighter Ace), or any other game. Aerial combat is about killing the other guy, and the other team, as quickly and efficiently as possible, using the choice of air combat maneuvers that are most applicable to each situation. We've found that the community here has bastardized that concept, turning it into a leisurely activity skewed with subjective concepts of honor and "fun."  We do not intend to now or ever fit that mold. We come from a background of very competitive play across numerous flight sims, where the winner is the last man standing regardless of how he got there (without cheating, of course). If it is possible, it is fair. This isn't to cover up deficiencies or inadequacies, it's simply because we're more interested in, for example, killing 10 guys than we are in in having a single 20-minute long "great fight."

Bluntly, we didn't come here to adapt, we came here to kill. We don't care if others disagree with us, but in similar fashion, don't expect us to accept their opinions. We will do what we want, how we want (within the confines of the game, that is). I'm not sure how many times this needs to be repeated until it's realized that we truly mean it.

Good to know, thanks.

- oldman

[katanaso]

This is amusing.  Winning is serious business to some folks, to the point that it matters in their lives.

I'm waiting for the first resume to come through with a "Number xx Ranked Player" in an online game as a credential.

When it does, I'll then check to see if it lists "The Damned v2.0" instead of Phi Beta Kappa as an organization.