Is it wrong???

[DmonSlyr]

Yes pointing the nose down forsure.  

I'm just saying when you get down n dirty with a brew in a g14, if you give up your E in order to loop around them then you prob won't be able to pull a rope off. Depending on how many rolls and loops. And I'm talking as if both planes are flying by equal pilots b

[nrshida]

A question for you: what is the most efficient way for a fighter aircraft in AH to generate energy as in "E" as quickly as possible?

A zero G parabolic acceleration? Next to that fly straight and level to accelerate? Unpack the emergency E kit stored under the seat? The suspense is killing me

[Wmaker]

Quickest way to gain E is to climb at best climb speed (alt-x).

E = kinetic energy + potential energy

[nrshida]

Quickest way to gain E is to climb at best climb speed (alt-x).

E = kinetic energy + potential energy

If you can make the space to do it. It leaves you pretty vulnerable and is a bit predictable. How do you responsd when flying the Brewster when you observe this in an opponent?

[BnZs]

Quickest way to gain E is to climb at best climb speed (alt-x).

E = kinetic energy + potential energy

True. But of course best ROC speed in these planes is well below both their corner speed and comfortable speed for a vertical maneuver. So while you are are gaining energy rapidly you aren't very maneuverable until you take the time to convert some of that alt into speed...but I suppose that is one of those things that makes energy fighting kind of tricky compared to relatively more intuitive angles tactics, a thing I'm sure you are aware of.

Players in this game seem to have the idea that E fighting is "easy mode" compared to t'n'b fighting, an odd notion that conflicts with my own flight sim experience as well as Robert Shaw's real world observations.

[DmonSlyr]

Quickest way to gain E is to climb at best climb speed (alt-x).

E = kinetic energy + potential energy

I'm not sure of your point?

I get your concept, but what does this have to do against a brewster or a6m when they turn on your 6 from 400 away and you are both going roughly the same speed.

The goal is not to get in the position, but realisitcally, the only thing you can do is extend away in a shallow climb. You can attempt a loaded roll but it's risky if you aren't in a ki/f4u or better turning plane than those.

If you initially have the speed, a rope, hammerhead stall, and E fighting strategies are surely what you want to do. But losing that advantage can be costly and you will be fighting with the brews advantage at this point. It's incredibly difficult to squerm away.

If you are the brew fighter, you need to get them in the looping roll by using the loaded roll technique, because your plane will always be able to turn slower. Once you get a plane in the position, being in the brew you can easily turn inside of them.

[Changeup]

True. But of course best ROC speed in these planes is well below both their corner speed and comfortable speed for a vertical maneuver. So while you are are gaining energy rapidly you aren't very maneuverable until you take the time to convert some of that alt into speed...but I suppose that is one of those things that makes energy fighting kind of tricky compared to relatively more intuitive angles tactics, a thing I'm sure you are aware of.

Players in this game seem to have the idea that E fighting is "easy mode" compared to t'n'b fighting, an odd notion that conflicts with my own flight sim experience as well as Robert Shaw's real world observations.

Shidas point is that no one particular mode is easier than the others but that the best pilots can use and move fluidly between all three expertly to win decisively.  Add in the lethality of being a great marksman and you have a top 20 AH pilot of all time.

[Triton28]

E-fighting is most often easiest way to fight because of the way it's usually done... starting from a position of advantage.  Most cautious E-fighters will disengage well before the situation is close to even, so they minimize their risk.  While there's nothing wrong with this, the avid E-fighter should have a second screen handy so he can browse the forums or watch some pron if he is to remain awake long enough to have a "good" E-fight with another pilot who knows what he's doing. 

 

[BnZs]

E-fighting is most often easiest way to fight because of the way it's usually done... starting from a position of advantage.  Most cautious E-fighters will disengage well before the situation is close to even, so they minimize their risk.

But this is not effective in defeating the bogey, and can barely even be called "fighting". I find that actually getting the kill when a turning disadvantage makes E-fighting necessary more difficult and more requiring of gunnery skill than a situation where I have sufficient turning ability to simply settle on the six and stay there.

[Skyyr]

Quickest way to gain E is to climb at best climb speed (alt-x).

E = kinetic energy + potential energy

Close, but not quite. "Best climb speed" isn't specific enough, as there are several best climb speeds. You would need to climb, specifically, at Vy (or V sub y).

[Changeup]

But this is not effective in defeating the bogey, and can barely even be called "fighting". I find that actually getting the kill when a turning disadvantage makes E-fighting necessary more difficult and more requiring of gunnery skill than a situation where I have sufficient turning ability to simply settle on the six and stay there.

Yes.  You are correct.  That's why we're saying it.  Slash, pass, run.  Re-engage when the guy chasing you is tangled up with another bogey, kill him, claim skillful victory.  Rinse, repeat, claim scoring speaks for itself.

There are no particular people doing this...it is now the norm.  That is fine, but it's not beating someone.  Its just waiting them out.  I find little skill in hunting in a fenced yard.

[Debrody]

Today I up my trusty Brewster. I tangled with a few then in comes a LA.  Get on his six and he leaves, running away. I roll out, he returns, then he runs. Happened 4 or 5 times. Just before blowing a gasket I begin to ponder. I see a lot of talk on the forum about "run stangs" "spit dweeb" blah blah. Is it really wrong to capitalize on each planes strength? I was turning and burning the Brewster. Was I in the wrong to use its strength?

I know im a bit late, but here are my thoughts.
You were upping the slowest, best turning aircraft in the game. Do not expect anyone to turn with you. The La is also a capable dogfighter but is nowhere as good as the brewster.
Obviously that La had no clue about how to kill a brewster in an energy-fight (not a BnZ!). Its a boring annoyment when an inferior pilot in a superior plane just cannot let you live, but again, noone is forcing you to fly the dumbster.

You have described the "runstang" tactic - this is usually used by inferior pilots who cannot initiate an energy-fight or a BnZ situation, so they have to bore you and themselves to tears. As a totally unproductive tactic, its obviously wrong, building a little vertical separation is the way to properly fight the super-turny birds. The "spitdweeb" is something totally different, usually used by those who are running into a spit pilot that knows what he is doing. There is nothing wrong in being a spitdweeb though.

Generally, using a plane's strenght to kill the opponent is not wrong (in fact, its one main point of the game) until it turns into boring your opponent to death.

[Triton28]

But this is not effective in defeating the bogey, and can barely even be called "fighting". I find that actually getting the kill when a turning disadvantage makes E-fighting necessary more difficult and more requiring of gunnery skill than a situation where I have sufficient turning ability to simply settle on the six and stay there.

lol... yeah.  I find that getting a kill is more satisfying than just flying away too.  But no, E-fighting is really only hard if your eye for judging E is rusty and/or you have no idea what you're doing.  Beyond that, just follow the script.

As Changeup said, the truly great pilots can transition between styles at will.  But IMO, E-fighting is the easiest to learn and gain proficiency in.

 

[BnZs]

Yes.  You are correct.  That's why we're saying it.  Slash, pass, run.  Re-engage when the guy chasing you is tangled up with another bogey, kill him, claim skillful victory.  Rinse, repeat, claim scoring speaks for itself.

This sounds like you are describing a situation where one ends up being engaged by two. Of course that puts the one at an enormous disadvantage.

OTOH, in situations where roughly equally sized groups of friendlies and bandits, the primary effective tactic probably is cooperating to set the enemies up for "picks" without having the same done to you. And the study of these ACM problems have even more complexities and variations than found in 1v1 "duelling".

[BnZs]

E-fighting is really only hard if your eye for judging E is rusty and/or you have no idea what you're doing.  Beyond that, just follow the script.

As Changeup said, the truly great pilots can transition between styles at will.  But IMO, E-fighting is the easiest to learn and gain proficiency in.

Three sincere questions:

1. If this is so, then why do I (and so many other virtual pilots) find it much simpler to win fights where plane matchup allows one to simply saddle up through angles tactics?

2. If this is so, why did the guy who literally wrote the book on fighter combat, Robert Shaw, emphasize repeatedly that E-fighting is less generally less intuitive and requires more experience?

3. Finally, if E-fighting actually is easier than turn-fighting, why does anyone in either the virtual sky ever choose a turn-fighter? Humans are not noted for taking the path of MOST resistance in large numbers...