Author Topic: The qualities of a great AH pilot  (Read 5215 times)

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2014, 12:15:05 PM »
[quote er=Zerstorer linwc=365211.msg4859376#msg4859376 date=1408377946]
Agreed except for the qualifier.  I think its pretty important for people who fly fast planes as well i.e. everyone ends up slow sometimes.

I agree, of course. 

So if this is the case, does it follow that a pilot who is consistently effective in a plane that is not optimal for a given situation is more skilled than another pilot in the same scenario but flying a more inherently effective plane?


[/quote]

Yeah that's true, you should be able to do them in faster planes but you don't necessarily want to be  in that position because they can't turn well and it makes it easier to get picked. Only if you have a lot of E and can possibly pull a rope.

That's a tough question though fulcrum.  Do they only fly an 5 eny plane that has speed and can turn decently enough? (P51). Do these pilots actually get in situations where they don't have the advantage? Let's say that P47 takes off at a base being capped by carrier planes. He gets 5 kills, while another guy in a ki84 doesn't get any. Sure you could say the P47 guy was more skilled. But players who consistently fly let's say a 190D really don't have too many disadvantages unless they get slow. Sooo, if a player only chooses one style, in a plane that is optimal in 90% of situations to be able to get out of the fight by running away, there's really not that much skill involved other than knowing how not to get slow. So this plane would have a higher % of being able to get more kills in many more situations because of not only the fighter pilot but because the plane has much better performance. Therefore, you don't have to be as skilled to fly these planes given the fact that there is less of a chance that the situation will go to your disadvantage. However, if you only fly the P40 and land kills and are awesome in that, then yes you prob are very skilled.



I wanted to say to kruel that.. You definitely do need to fly in these planes to see disadvantages that you can't see when fighting them.  Example would be like a gas leak or something. If you never flew a F4U1d you wouldn't know that a it only has 1 tank compared to the 1a that has 2. If you were in a ki84 and I was in a nik. I'd know that ud have the advantage in the vert but I'd have it in the flat turn. You will never know how fast a plane loses E or excels if you never fight with. And you will never know some of the fighter tactics planes like to use more than other planes if you don't fly them.  I know that because the spit has only one notch of flaps, as soon as I see them go down, I can usually beat them in roll arounds and loops because that one notch of flaps really effects the E state.I can also hope he flat spins by dumping flaps too early and trying to slow down and roll too quickly. I learned that by flying it rather than watching people do it and assume I know the reason why.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2014, 12:27:46 PM »
There are great pilots, and then there are the freaks.  The great ones IMO are the ones that have the attributes Dolby listed.

"Mechanically" a great pilot has great SA, ability to control the plane, gunnery.  Gunnery and flight ability can compensate for each other somewhat, meaning a slightly lower capability in gunnery can be offset by the ability to set the opponents up for easy shots, and vice versa.

Then there are the freaks.  A lot of great pilots can dive into a red crowd alone and get a few kills before succumbing to the gangbang more often than not.  The freaks are the ones that can do it and clear the sky of red, then fly home on a consistent basis.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2014, 12:47:58 PM »
But players who consistently fly let's say a 190D really don't have too many disadvantages unless they get slow. Sooo, if a player only chooses one style, in a plane that is optimal in 90% of situations to be able to get out of the fight by running away, there's really not that much skill involved other than knowing how not to get slow. So this plane would have a higher % of being able to get more kills in many more situations because of not only the fighter pilot but because the plane has much better performance. Therefore, you don't have to be as skilled to fly these planes given the fact that there is less of a chance that the situation will go to your disadvantage. However, if you only fly the P40 and land kills and are awesome in that, then yes you prob are very skilled.

The "awesome P-40 pilot" could have gotten all of his kills by cherry picking while hanging outside of a furball, which according to you would make him unskilled, just like the pilot flying the FW 190 is unskilled, because according to you the Focke Wulf pilot only uses Energy Fighting tactics.  It is also rather biased to impart to the masses that since the FW 190 pilot only uses Energy Fighting tactics (which his plane is well suited for), than he is 'unskilled' compared to someone that uses more Angle Fighting tactics.

I can understand where you've derived that assumption from, it's from the fact that the majority of the players that employ Energy Fighting tactics do so incorrectly.  Correctly flown, Energy Fighting takes just as much skill as Angles Fighting and the one that thinks otherwise is the one that usually ends up in the tower.  Woe be the angle fighter that runs into an E fighting pilot that can easily transition between the two fighting styles in a fight.

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« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 12:50:00 PM by Ack-Ack »
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Offline Kruel

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2014, 01:13:19 PM »

I wanted to say to kruel that.. You definitely do need to fly in these planes to see disadvantages that you can't see when fighting them.  Example would be like a gas leak or something. If you never flew a F4U1d you wouldn't know that a it only has 1 tank compared to the 1a that has 2. If you were in a ki84 and I was in a nik. I'd know that ud have the advantage in the vert but I'd have it in the flat turn. You will never know how fast a plane loses E or excels if you never fight with. And you will never know some of the fighter tactics planes like to use more than other planes if you don't fly them.  I know that because the spit has only one notch of flaps, as soon as I see them go down, I can usually beat them in roll arounds and loops because that one notch of flaps really effects the E state.I can also hope he flat spins by dumping flaps too early and trying to slow down and roll too quickly. I learned that by flying it rather than watching people do it and assume I know the reason why.

People learn in different ways. In your KI84 vs N1K example, why couldn't the simple experience of getting beat in the flat turn a few times teach me "maybe I shouldn't do that anymore".

Experience can show you what different planes are capable of, I don't fly the KI 84 but I know it's a monster in the vertical, why? Because I've been on the receiving end of it.. lesson? Don't take a  KI vertical unless you have a significant E advantage. It are flying a plane that experience has shown to climb better than the KI;

Sure, there are nuances to each plane (tanks, flaps ect ect) those are things you look up. I don't fly the K4 but, experience has shown me that they can't dive.

People learn in different ways, so even if I have never flown  KI84, I know that if my E state is similar to an LA7, I should be able to catch him in the vertical.

I guess it's a matter of subjective opinion, I would rather be known as an expert in one airframe, than "generally good" in all.

Offline Kruel

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2014, 01:14:39 PM »
The "awesome P-40 pilot" could have gotten all of his kills by cherry picking while hanging outside of a furball, which according to you would make him unskilled, just like the pilot flying the FW 190 is unskilled, because according to you the Focke Wulf pilot only uses Energy Fighting tactics.  It is also rather biased to impart to the masses that since the FW 190 pilot only uses Energy Fighting tactics (which his plane is well suited for), than he is 'unskilled' compared to someone that uses more Angle Fighting tactics.

I can understand where you've derived that assumption from, it's from the fact that the majority of the players that employ Energy Fighting tactics do so incorrectly.  Correctly flown, Energy Fighting takes just as much skill as Angles Fighting and the one that thinks otherwise is the one that usually ends up in the tower.  Woe be the angle fighter that runs into an E fighting pilot that can easily transition between the two fighting styles in a fight.

ack-ack

Well said.

:slowclap:
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 01:23:25 PM by Kruel »

Offline JunkyII

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2014, 01:17:02 PM »
1. Able to fight angles or E fight.
2. SA
3. Accuracy

Those 3 things in order are the most important traits of the best fighter pilots. Some would argue different order of precedence but I believe General knowledge of ACM will help you be better at the other 2, especially accuracy because a pilot who can place himself where he has the higher percentage shot is going to be a far more superior pilot.

Plane shouldn't matter as well IMO,  best pilots can jump in any ride and lay the smack down(may not be best in that ride, but surely be able to hang with the best.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2014, 01:18:42 PM »
Hypocrisy is an indespensable requirement  :old:
A good fighter pilot will bounce a lower & slower single enemy together with two friends, then lament all over CH 200 about "ack runners" and how he can't get a fight, thus promoting his image as a true 'fighting man'  :noid
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Offline Zerstorer

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2014, 01:22:45 PM »
1. Able to fight angles or E fight.
2. SA
3. Accuracy

Those 3 things in order are the most important traits of the best fighter pilots. Some would argue different order of precedence but I believe General knowledge of ACM will help you be better at the other 2, especially accuracy because a pilot who can place himself where he has the higher percentage shot is going to be a far more superior pilot.

Plane shouldn't matter as well IMO,  best pilots can jump in any ride and lay the smack down(may not be best in that ride, but surely be able to hang with the best.

I'd have to disagree with some of this.  How can one possibly apply ACM effectively without possessing SA, especially given the importance of timing?
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Offline Latrobe

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2014, 01:23:18 PM »
1. Knowledge of ACM and overall fighting skills; fighting the angles and E. Doesn't matter if you're a crack shot if you can't maneuver for a shot.
1. Gunnery. You can out fly your opponent all day long but if you can't shoot him then you can't kill him.
1. SA. Even if you're a crack shot and have hotshot ace piloting skills you can still be killed if you aren't aware of your surroundings.


There is no order of importance, they are all equally important.  :old: :cheers:

Offline Canspec

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2014, 01:26:15 PM »
A great AH pilot understands that this is not a flight simulator and will learn all of the gaming moves in the aircraft that the game allows both offensively and defensively. They will also have great SA and be a great shot.
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Offline katanaso

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2014, 01:27:52 PM »
Anybody that clears my smoking, leaking, wallowing P-38 as it limps home. :)
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Offline Zerstorer

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2014, 01:32:12 PM »
A great AH pilot understands that this is not a flight simulator and will learn all of the gaming moves in the aircraft that the game allows both offensively and defensively. They will also be a great shot.

So you are stating that all the "great" pilots of AH past & present are nothing more than "gamers of the game"?
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Offline Debrody

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2014, 01:48:40 PM »
A good pilot: one who is flying the same way as i do, giving me some fun fights.
A great pilot: a good pilot who is repeatedly beating me.
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Offline Aspen

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2014, 01:49:49 PM »
A good attitude and an obvious lack of the dbag gene.

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: The qualities of a great AH pilot
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2014, 02:11:06 PM »
The "awesome P-40 pilot" could have gotten all of his kills by cherry picking while hanging outside of a furball, which according to you would make him unskilled, just like the pilot flying the FW 190 is unskilled, because according to you the Focke Wulf pilot only uses Energy Fighting tactics.  It is also rather biased to impart to the masses that since the FW 190 pilot only uses Energy Fighting tactics (which his plane is well suited for), than he is 'unskilled' compared to someone that uses more Angle Fighting tactics.

I can understand where you've derived that assumption from, it's from the fact that the majority of the players that employ Energy Fighting tactics do so incorrectly.  Correctly flown, Energy Fighting takes just as much skill as Angles Fighting and the one that thinks otherwise is the one that usually ends up in the tower.  Woe be the angle fighter that runs into an E fighting pilot that can easily transition between the two fighting styles in a fight.

ack-ack

I'm not necessarily saying they are unskilled. I am saying that they have a higher ability to be unskilled and still get kills because their plane allows them to have more opportunity to not be put in a disadvantage.  Where as a P40, if it gets in trouble, doesn't have the ability to simply extend away and regain E. You would actually have to fight and make sure to not get ganged, therefore it takes a considerate amount of more skill and the experience to be successful in it. Even for the people who aren't good at E fighting they still have the chance to get away from a fight when the tides are changing.
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