AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28

[Zerstorer]

HOing is a lot different in duels than it is in the MA since in duels more often than not you will consistanly meet face to face. In the MA there are too many variables and its actually a lot easier to avoid.

I could add quotes stating that HOs in the MA are hard to avoid because you may be in a furball and not see the attempt until too late....but if the above is the case then they should be OUTLAWED in the annual dueling ladder.  The reason they are not, I suspect, is because it would be difficult to enforce given the wide disparity of opinion concerning what actually constitutes a "HO" shot.  It also is a valid shot, but I digress. If it's allowed in the dueling ladders, it should be allowed in these events as well.

Every pilot is responsible for his or her own skin.  If a pilot dies by a HO, blaming the other pilot is pointless...the person "dead" made a mistake.  

[Changeup]

Ahem:

We aren't changing anything,  There are plenty of people who want to fight, especially now. It saddens me that such a non factor would keep you from participating again. I was expecting you to work on your 2v2 only to try and redeem yourselves. It's what I would've done .

This sounded so promising:

For that fight I meant it.  Moving forward, it's up to the community.  Not you or I

[Triton28]

I kinda thought the first fight you guys had taken 50% in hopes of running us out of gas.  lol

Out of curiosity, what were your fuel loadouts? 

[Skyyr]

Same with me.  In a duel there is really no reason to take more than 25% fuel if the intent is to fight and not try to run the other guy out of fuel.

ack-ack

And here we have de facto "personal preference" enforcement, where you are subjecting what you deem as necessary, due to your style of flight, on another, regardless of their style of flight.

You see, you could load 50% fuel if you feel that we're going to try to outlast you, but you would complain that you're not as maneuverable as someone with 25% fuel. So, logically then, we would choose perhaps 50% fuel for most planes, but then people would complain they couldn't turn them as well as they could with 25% and that they're at a disadvantage, even though the other guy is identical.

Therefore, we implemented pilot's discretion. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, the reason why we didn't use a flat 25% or 50% value was because of flight time. Although rare, some fights truly last 10-15 minutes, so we didn't want fuel being an issue or cause of a loss. Changeup actually ran out of fuel in an LA-7 fight, and we came close, even though he was actually engaged the entire time.

Now, with that, perhaps the most neutral approach is to use a fuel loadout that allows for X number of minutes (the smallest fuel loadout that allows for a set flight time).

This, however, brings back up having to review every film and every fuel loadout... and for what? In the end, it's all solved by pilot's discretion.

Setting a time limit would be far more effective, though judging who won or lost if the time ran over would require some solving.

[Vraciu]

And here we have de facto "personal preference" enforcement, where you are subjecting what you deem as necessary, due to your style of flight, on another, regardless of their style of flight.

You see, you could load 50% fuel if you feel that we're going to try to outlast you, but you would complain that you're not as maneuverable as someone with 25% fuel. So, logically then, we would choose perhaps 50% fuel for most planes, but then people would complain they couldn't turn them as well as they could with 25% and that they're at a disadvantage, even though the other guy is identical.

Therefore, we implemented pilot's discretion. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, the reason why we didn't use a flat 25% or 50% value was because of flight time. Although rare, some fights truly last 10-15 minutes, so we didn't want fuel being an issue or cause of a loss. Changeup actually ran out of fuel in an LA-7 fight, and we came close, even though he was actually engaged the entire time.

Now, with that, perhaps the most neutral approach is to use a fuel loadout that allows for X number of minutes (the smallest fuel loadout that allows for a set flight time).

This, however, brings back up having to review every film and every fuel loadout... and for what? In the end, it's all solved by pilot's discretion.

Setting a time limit would be far more effective, though judging who won or lost if the time ran over would require some solving.

Why not have the side picking the plane also pick the fuel load?  Or did I miss the reason for that somewhere else?

If the time runs out it is a tie.

Planes like the LA should perhaps be launched at 50% since they have such a small fuel capacity.

[Skyyr]

I kinda thought the first fight you guys had taken 50% in hopes of running us out of gas.  lol

Out of curiosity, what were your fuel loadouts? 

Whatever the smallest loadout was that would allow for 15 minutes of dogfighting. One minute on the runway, three to climbout, and roughly 10-11 to fight. It was always either 25-or 50%.

[Changeup]

Whatever the smallest loadout was that would allow for 15 minutes of dogfighting. One minute on the runway, three to climbout, and roughly 10-11 to fight. It was always either 25-or 50%.

Then you used 50.  Flight time in an LA7 in the DA at 25% is 11 - 12 and they did run me out of fuel

[Kruel]

For that fight I meant it.  Moving forward, it's up to the community.  Not you or I

I didn't see the community setting this up, I guess you speak for everyone now, it IS up to the participants, we issued the challenge to you and said we would be doing more of these.

Fuel loading and ammo dumping are tactical decisions. As long as both parties are aware and agree there's not much more to discuss.

Had you won I highly doubt we would be having this discussion, as a matter of fact I don't think you mentioned the community in the 5v5, funny.

[Changeup]

I didn't see the community setting this up, I guess you speak for everyone now, it IS up to the participants, we issued the challenge to you and said we would be doing more of these.

Fuel loading and ammo dumping are tactical decisions. As long as both parties are aware and agree there's not much more to discuss.

Had you won I highly doubt we would be having this discussion, as a matter of fact I don't think you mentioned the community in the 5v5, funny.

As I said, feel free to solicit your challenges.  I'm quite certain you'll be flying against each other.  If that is a "win" for you and your rules, congrats.

[Kruel]

Then you used 50.  Flight time in an LA7 in the DA at 25% is 11 - 12 and they did run me out of fuel

Sounds like you had the same misfortune that Fulcrum had in the 5v5,  epic.  Triton didn't run out.

[Zerstorer]

Planes like the LA maybe should be at 50% since they have such a small fuel capacity.

Oh that's CRAZY talk, Vraciu!  No one would be dumb enough....to.....ahh...run out of fuel during a....squad or 2v2 duel.... in a.... LA7?





<FLASHBACK TO ONE WEEK AGO>

Skyyr - "Let's take 50% this first round....this 5v5 in these LA7s could last a while."

Fulcrum - "I'm taking 25%.  I don't want to lose the manuverability."

<~10 minutes later>

Fulcrum - "Kruel!  Hang on up there. We got the last one 2v1!  I'm below you and will climb up to help!"


*sputter sputter ping! <dead>*

[Changeup]

Sounds like you had the same misfortune that Fulcrum had in the 5v5,  epic.  Triton didn't run out.

Yep.  Good luck fellers, lol

[Kruel]

As I said, feel free to solicit your challenges.  I'm quite certain you'll be flying against each other.  If that is a "win" for you and your rules, congrats.

Why did you agree to them? They were OUR(yours as much as mine) rules because you agreed. It's simple, really.  

Now it's about the format.

[Triton28]

Sounds like you had the same misfortune that Fulcrum had in the 5v5,  epic.  Triton didn't run out.

We had the same fuel loadout.  I wasn't far behind.  

[Ack-Ack]

And here we have de facto "personal preference" enforcement, where you are subjecting what you deem as necessary, due to your style of flight, on another, regardless of their style of flight.

I guess this is where you and me disagree on the point of a duel.  To me a duel is about fighting, not 'extending' and hoping the other guy runs out of fuel before I do.  As such, I see no reason to take more than 25% fuel in a duel which is far more enough fuel for a fight.

ack-ack